Submitted by blackout on Wed, 10/28/2009 - 6:11am.
Citizens have a fundamental right to privacy, and are under no obligation to report a crime. It would be almost impossible to enforce such a statute, anyway, since most citizens are not experts in the Law, and cannot be expected to render expert judgments concerning whether or not something they saw was actually illegal. The only exceptions I am aware of (and support) are the crime of misprison, which occurs when a citizen conceals the commission of a felony, or fails to report a crime that falls under their specific responsiblities as defined under the law (for example: if a teacher becomes aware of the abuse of a child in their care, they are obligated to report it).
TTFN,
Blackout
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the ProU community.
Submitted by dragonwolf on Fri, 10/30/2009 - 12:51pm.
I don't know if you read the article Fallon linked that sparked this, or her rant about it, but the police are saying that the bystanders can't be charged with anything because they didn't actually touch the girl.
What are your thoughts on that case?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Here's what the Richmond Police Lt. had to say (from the article linked above) in case you didn't read it
"We do not have the ability to arrest people who witnessed the crime and did nothing," Gagan said. "The law can be very rigid. We don't have the authority to make an arrest."
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"Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth." - Dana
"We live as if the world were as it should be to show others what it can be." -Angel
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Submitted by jswihura on Mon, 11/02/2009 - 12:21pm.
Have you read the article about the girl being raped at the school dance? I was just wondering if you agreed with the author, that the students who cheered the offenders and took pictures of the crime should be punished for the crime?
In some cases I would probably say yes (you witness a murder and don't tell anyone) to the principle behind a law like this, but then how would you enforce it? How can you prove someone saw a crime, understood it was a crime, and then purposefully didn't report it?
Also, there are a lot of crimes out there. If I saw someone jaywalking and didn't report that, does that count? Seems pretty ridiculous.
Submitted by jackbenimble on Mon, 11/02/2009 - 12:44pm.
I think as soon as they started taking pictures that their actions become very questionable. They obviously knew something extraordinary was happening. They either took the pictures to document the crime for authorites or they took them for personal reasons. If they took them for personal reasons they should be charged as co-conspirators and with child pornography.
The courts often apply a "reasonable person" standard in many aspects of the law. While people cannot be expected to be experts in the law, they can be expected to have reasonable judgement and to behave like a reasonable person.
When a reasonable person sees a group of young men taking turns having sex with a girl on the grounds of a public school then a reasonable person would probably have enough judgement to conclude that something might be amiss. It is not asking a lot for them to dial 911 on the cell phone that they already have in their hand because they are taking pictures. The police can be expected to use their expertise to sort things out and determine if a crime has in fact occurred.
I personally think all these little scumbags should be charged as co-conspirators in the rape. I would be inclined to sentence them very mildly as long as they provided their fullest cooperation in providing evidence and testimony leading to the conviction of the worst scumbags.
Related article: As many as 20 present at gang rape outside school dance
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"Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth." - Dana
"We live as if the world were as it should be to show others what it can be." -Angel
-----
Citizens have a fundamental right to privacy, and are under no obligation to report a crime. It would be almost impossible to enforce such a statute, anyway, since most citizens are not experts in the Law, and cannot be expected to render expert judgments concerning whether or not something they saw was actually illegal. The only exceptions I am aware of (and support) are the crime of misprison, which occurs when a citizen conceals the commission of a felony, or fails to report a crime that falls under their specific responsiblities as defined under the law (for example: if a teacher becomes aware of the abuse of a child in their care, they are obligated to report it).
TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the ProU community.
I don't know if you read the article Fallon linked that sparked this, or her rant about it, but the police are saying that the bystanders can't be charged with anything because they didn't actually touch the girl.
What are your thoughts on that case?
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Here's what the Richmond Police Lt. had to say (from the article linked above) in case you didn't read it
"We do not have the ability to arrest people who witnessed the crime and did nothing," Gagan said. "The law can be very rigid. We don't have the authority to make an arrest."
-----
"Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth." - Dana
"We live as if the world were as it should be to show others what it can be." -Angel
-----
Have you read the article about the girl being raped at the school dance? I was just wondering if you agreed with the author, that the students who cheered the offenders and took pictures of the crime should be punished for the crime?
Other.
In some cases I would probably say yes (you witness a murder and don't tell anyone) to the principle behind a law like this, but then how would you enforce it? How can you prove someone saw a crime, understood it was a crime, and then purposefully didn't report it?
Also, there are a lot of crimes out there. If I saw someone jaywalking and didn't report that, does that count? Seems pretty ridiculous.
I think as soon as they started taking pictures that their actions become very questionable. They obviously knew something extraordinary was happening. They either took the pictures to document the crime for authorites or they took them for personal reasons. If they took them for personal reasons they should be charged as co-conspirators and with child pornography.
The courts often apply a "reasonable person" standard in many aspects of the law. While people cannot be expected to be experts in the law, they can be expected to have reasonable judgement and to behave like a reasonable person.
When a reasonable person sees a group of young men taking turns having sex with a girl on the grounds of a public school then a reasonable person would probably have enough judgement to conclude that something might be amiss. It is not asking a lot for them to dial 911 on the cell phone that they already have in their hand because they are taking pictures. The police can be expected to use their expertise to sort things out and determine if a crime has in fact occurred.
I personally think all these little scumbags should be charged as co-conspirators in the rape. I would be inclined to sentence them very mildly as long as they provided their fullest cooperation in providing evidence and testimony leading to the conviction of the worst scumbags.