Submitted by respectlife on Tue, 02/10/2009 - 10:03am.
I said no. Reason being that, as an adolescent, I know how we over dramatize things. If something happened to where we would need life saving treatment, there are some girls who would just want to die because they had to cut off all their hair or something of the like.
In addition, I think the parents should be involved until they're legal adults.
RESPECT LIFE SMILE EVERY DAY
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Submitted by A Certain Saint on Tue, 02/10/2009 - 12:22pm.
I said yes. Quite frankly, one's body is one's body - it doesn't belong to anyone else and no one should be able to tell you what you can and can't do with it. If you'd like to refuse treatement, refuse treatment. It doesn't cause me any grief.
I said yes. Although I don't what the poll means by "life saving treatment." If that refers to being put on a respirator for the rest of my life, I certainly don't think I should have to do that. But if it's a one and done operation, of course I'd consent. Respectlife does bring up a valid legal point though- as minors, are adolescents allowed to make such a decision without parental consent?
Submitted by scraps of forme... on Tue, 02/10/2009 - 6:33pm.
I agree with A Certain Saint. One's own body is their own. Yeah, some adolescents are stupid. If they decide to do something stupid, it's their fault. End of story. At least that stupidity won't be passed on to the next generation, thus continuing that stupidity and stunting our evolution.
Besides, contrary to popular belief, teenagers AREN'T all stupid.
I hate to stereotype people, but adolescents do the dumbest things and are capable of making horrible decisions. They can't vote, they can't drink, they can't smoke, they mostly can't drive, but they should have the right to end their lives? The reason adolescents are under the care of their parents is because as a society we realize they're just not capable of handling their own lives, regardless of how mature they think they are. Some can, but most can't and it's only when they're older that they can look back and think how much more mature and rational they are now. How many kids would have never made it to adulthood if they controlled their own lives?
Submitted by scraps of forme... on Wed, 02/11/2009 - 1:50pm.
Yeah, but most adolescents AREN'T stupid enough to deny life saving treatment. And if it'll only prolong the kid's suffering, who is anyone else to force it upon them? And if they deny it solely out of stupidity, well, it IS their fault...
Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 02/11/2009 - 3:58pm.
They can't vote, they can't drink, they can't smoke, they mostly can't drive, but they should have the right to end their lives?
Yet they can work and if they work, have to pay taxes to Uncle Sam?
And in the case of that time between 18 and 21, where they can't drink, but can smoke, vote, and drive, they can also be drafted or voluntarily join the military and fight and die for our country?
And why is it that 18 is seen as this magical age when a person goes from being "another stupid, idiotic teenager" to a "productive, intelligent adult"? I've seen so many 15-year-olds that were more intelligent, mature, and capable than their 40-year-old parents.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by tolkien3791 on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 4:20pm.
Do not use the military to promote your agenda. The military forces you to grow up fast. In basic training they break you down and build you up the way they want. I have seen the major change that come from just going though basic. So do not put those 18 year in the same circle as the juveniles that are in the civilian population. Just because someone is old enough to die for their country does not mean that they are ready to fight for their country.
As for working teens most state require that the kid be at least 16 in order to get a job and under child labor laws they are required to work less then 20 hours a week. Also, most parent that let their kids work in their teen years is to let them learn how to be responsible either for a car their, their own insurance, or to learn money management.
18 has become a magical year due to the fact that it is the year that the average adolescent finishes high school. Upon completion of school the state feels that the young person has been given enough knowledge to make it on their own. After that it is up to the parent to let them leave the nest. Many of the college bound student move to dorms and non college kids start the full time job and get an apartment and leave home.
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
Submitted by mvenus929 on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 6:04pm.
With more kids graduating high school at 17, it becomes such a pain when they go away to college, but are still not legally allowed to make decisions for themselves because they're not quite 18 yet. Can't legally sign papers dealing with their own education and time. Can't apply for things like a safety deposit box at the bank, because they aren't legally adults. From that standpoint, 18 seems like a completely arbitrary age.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Submitted by tolkien3791 on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 7:42pm.
Maybe the government should change the legal age to 17, but then you would have to deal with sophomores and juniors becoming legal and all the issues that would come from that. The Legal age has changed throughout history back in the 1800's it was 15.
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
Submitted by sawaboof on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 8:51pm.
Maybe we should get rid of the legal age altogether. Implement a journey into adulthood instead. Be they 18 or 7, anyone who feels ready to become an adult and do adult things will have to overcome a series of physical, mental, and grammatical tasks to prove they're worthy of adulthood.
Submitted by whispers awnesty on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 10:26am.
Grammatical tasks!!!!
:yikes:
There would be a whole bunch of minors including my dear hubby :) Maybe if we grandfathered it in so that I would not face legal retribution???
Wait my grammar sucks too...did your law just negate my marriage???
There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin
Submitted by sawaboof on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 2:50pm.
I don't think my law negates your marriage because I think 18 to marry is an "age of license" and not an "age of majority." I could be wrong.
I think we could grandfather it in. Maybe everyone who is an adult will have a special tattoo, since you have to be an adult to get those anyway. Everyone who is already 18 and considered an adult can have the special tattoo, made from a special kind of ink that only special, adulthood-granting people will have possession of. We don't want people forging adulthood at any old tattoo parlor. Everyone else, from now on, has to prove themselves worthy before the sacred ink will inhabit their flesh. :P
Submitted by mvenus929 on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 8:51pm.
What issues would those be? My sister won't graduate high school til she's 19 because she was held back a year. She'll turn 18 when she's a junior. So... what, she can legally smoke and buy porn when she's a junior? Whoop-dee-doo. She can legally drop out of school when she's 16, so what's the big difference? She'll still be living in my mom's house (well, she might be living in her dad's house) after she's of legal age? So what?
So, what issues would arise with having kids in high school who are of legal age?
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Submitted by tolkien3791 on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 9:04am.
What issues could arise? Well their are many. One dating lets say guy 1 turns 17 in his sophomore year and is dating a girl who is 15 and lets say that their relationship involves sex that means jail time for guy 1if they get caught. Two lets say there is a fight between two guys guy 1 is 17 and guy 2 is 16 that is assault guy one goes to jail and guy 2 gets a slap on the wrist. Three more kids providing illegal nicotine for their minor friends. Four most medical insurances only provided coverage of minors this kids would then lose coverage. Five higher drop out rate many kids would rather work 40 hours a week then go to school.
In your opinion do you think that your sister was mentally ready to be an adult when she was a freshman?
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
Submitted by dragonwolf on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 9:46am.
Well their are many. One dating lets say guy 1 turns 17 in his sophomore year and is dating a girl who is 15 and lets say that their relationship involves sex that means jail time for guy 1
Not necessarily. Most states actually have age gaps in place for their statutory rape laws for precisely that reason. In the states I've researched, it's 3 or 4 years' difference. Your case is no different than if they were 18 and 16.
Two lets say there is a fight between two guys guy 1 is 17 and guy 2 is 16 that is assault guy one goes to jail and guy 2 gets a slap on the wrist.
Again, the same would happen if guy 1 is 18 and guy 2 is 17 now.
Three more kids providing illegal nicotine for their minor friends
18 year olds do that for their younger friends, anyway. Hell, some parent will buy it for their older teenagers.
By your logic, kids would never be able to get a hold of alcohol or weed. I don't know about your school, but in mine, I knew who could supply either (or both) without much issue when I was a Freshman.
Four most medical insurances only provided coverage of minors this kids would then lose coverage.
Not if they're in school. Most insurances consider the child a dependent until age 24 if they're still in school (high school or college) and the "child" is still claimed as a dependent on things like tax returns.
Five higher drop out rate many kids would rather work 40 hours a week then go to school.
I'd like to see numbers where current 18-year-old high schoolers are dropping out to work full time just because they'd "rather be working." Most of the people I've seen that drop out to work don't do so because they want to, but rather because they have to in order to keep a roof over their family's heads and clothes on their backs.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by mvenus929 on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 6:10pm.
Well, I think dragonwolf pointed out just about everything I wanted to. But I have a comment anyway:
In your opinion do you think that your sister was mentally ready to be an adult when she was a freshman?
I don't know, seeing as how my sister hasn't been a freshman yet. She's only in 6th grade. I'm not sure about the sister who actually has been a freshman either, seeing as how I didn't live with her, but now that she's 19, I still don't think she's mentally ready to be an adult. Then again, she's autistic.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Submitted by respectlife on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 5:19am.
As an (almost) 17yo who will spend my entire first year of college as a minor (I won't turn 18 til mid-May of next year...whoopee!), I totally ditto this point. :P
RESPECT LIFE SMILE EVERY DAY
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Submitted by dragonwolf on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 10:13am.
Do not use the military to promote your agenda. The military forces you to grow up fast. In basic training they break you down and build you up the way they want.
Just because you don't agree with my point of view, it does not mean I have an "agenda" to further. It's called making a point.
Yes, being in the military forces one to grow up (and the number of people that either drop out or get kicked out for not being able to withhold the standards of the military would suggest that not everyone does grow up, even in the military). However, being of age to be in the military does not automatically make them grown up, even if Uncle Sam says so.
Just because someone is old enough to die for their country does not mean that they are ready to fight for their country.
That's exactly my point. Just because they are chronologically old enough, it doesn't mean they mentally or emotionally are.
As for working teens most state require that the kid be at least 16 in order to get a job and under child labor laws they are required to work less then 20 hours a week.
Actually, Federal Labor Laws allow for teens as young as 14 to work (and if you include the family farm, there is no age limit at all). Yes, it's highly restricted in some states until 18, but they still can, and they still have to pay taxes on their wages. Also, a minor can, in fact, work up to 40 hours in a non-school week (such as over Christmas or during the summer) if they are 14 or 15. There are no limits for those 16 and older.
18 has become a magical year due to the fact that it is the year that the average adolescent finishes high school. Upon completion of school the state feels that the young person has been given enough knowledge to make it on their own. After that it is up to the parent to let them leave the nest. Many of the college bound student move to dorms and non college kids start the full time job and get an apartment and leave home.
That would be fine and dandy if it weren't for the fact that high school graduation is not the factor for determining whether or not one is an "adult," despite the fact that both the 17 year old graduate and the 19 year old graduate have left with the same education.
Even if one has graduated high school, it will be nearly impossible for them to get a job that will be able to support them on their own if they're not 18. Why? Because no one cares that they've graduated high school, even if they're in college, they're still a minor. They still can't sign contracts, they still can't work more than 4 hours at a time without getting a "lunch break." There are a number of statutes for employing minors that many companies won't even bother hiring them.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by whispers awnesty on Tue, 02/10/2009 - 8:56pm.
I suppose I do not see the problem if the person happens to be facing his/her fifth round of chemo. and has all the facts and a bit of rationalism. Should the parents have the right to pro long suffering in this manner? I do not see this as ending their life but as being an adult for a few minutes.
How would this even be regulated for?
There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin
Submitted by respectlife on Wed, 02/11/2009 - 8:49am.
For something like that, I would think that the family would be able to discuss it and make a decision together. Yeah, it's the kid that's suffering, but the parents and siblings are going to be left behind and I think helping to make that decision would bring closure and comfort to them for the rest of their lives.
RESPECT LIFE SMILE EVERY DAY
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Submitted by mvenus929 on Wed, 02/11/2009 - 6:51am.
1) Not all adolescents are stupid.
2) My parents should not be able to decide what happens to my body. They're obviously going to be fighting to the end for my life, but if I'm really on the edge of death, it would seem to me to be an act of maturity to say 'no, this is enough. I'm ready to die'. Death isn't a horrible thing... it's just a natural phase of life. Some people can accept that, and others can't.
3) In the end, it probably doesn't make a difference one way or the other. Doctors can force a treatment onto someone by getting two (medical) opinions that the person was not of sound mind. If an adolescent is making the decision, and neither the doctors, nor the parents, agree, something can be done to reverse that decision.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Submitted by dragonwolf on Wed, 02/11/2009 - 4:04pm.
I said "other," because I think it's really situational. Not only does it depend on what's considered "life-saving treatment," but it also highly depends on the person in question.
A superficial person would "just die" without so-and-so or such-and-such, and may even play up the whole matter (regardless of age) if they don't fully understand the weight of the matter at hand.
On the other hand, most people understand the weight of the matter when told "you will die if you don't get this treatment." And if the person is enduring enough pain and suffering and there's no prospect of getting better even with the life-saving treatment, then I think the option should be left open.
Like mvenus said, a lot of parents will fight tooth and nail to keep their child alive (as the saying often goes, "parents shouldn't have to bury their babies"). In some (many?) cases, the parents' fight for their child's life may completely disregard the child's quality of life. Yeah, you're kid's alive, but she'll never be able to live on her own and will require help just to take a piss for the rest of her life because she'll no longer have the mental or physical capacity to do so on her own.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Submitted by hXcChic22 on Thu, 02/12/2009 - 1:38pm.
Like others have said, I agree that one's body is their own and no one else's. That being said, there is a limit. I don't think people younger than 13 should be allowed to make those decisions, but from 13-18, it should be allowed.
Submitted by whispers awnesty on Thu, 02/12/2009 - 8:17pm.
Any particular reason why you picked 13?
There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin
Submitted by tolkien3791 on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 4:25pm.
If an adolescent wish to make the choice about life ending treatment then they need to be emancipate and leave on their own so they can make those decisions. Other then that I believe until 18 they need to fall under their parents directions and with any luck the parents will talk to their kids that have horrible life saving treatment that will prolong death but not return the child back to normal.
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
Submitted by blackout on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 10:36am.
...because of the fact that it is possible (though admittedly rare) for an adolescent to emancipate from his or her parents, and may be a afforded the rights of a legal adult at an earlier-than-usual age.
If you are a minor, then any major medical decision rightly belongs to and should be made by your parents or legal guardians. If you are of the age of majority, however, then that decision should be yours to make, alone.
When I went through all the medical stuff as a teenager, treatment decisions were my decisions. My mother and grandmother stood by those choices when I made them because it was my health we were dealing with and they knew I would make the decision I felt were best for me. Certainly they could have negated my decisions at any time, but at the end of the day, it was my health in question and they wanted it to be my decision as much as it could be. I still think I made the right decisions for me and appreciate that I was given the chance to make those decisions myself.
When it's your life or health in question; you should have a say so long as you're making those decisions realistically (ie: deciding not to have brain surgery because you don't want to lose your hair would not, to me, qualify as realistic). For most people, teenagers included, when you find out there's something that could be potentially fatal you aren't thinking in terms of the superficial but about the realities of what that can mean. You want to know the risks of treatment, the risks without treatment, etc. You may be upset about potential hair loss or the like... but that's not typically what sways you to one side or another. Contrary to popular belief, when it comes to life or death decisions, teenagers aren't complete morons. They deserve a little more credit than that.
-----
"Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence" - Amiel
"The beginning of thought is in disagreement -- not only with others but also with ourselves" - Hoffer
-----
Submitted by turtlesuds on Sat, 02/21/2009 - 2:24pm.
When i was 14 i was very ill, and in fact was dying. The doctors wanted to do a spinal tap and drain the excess cerebro-spinal fluid out of my spine. I knew the risks of permanent paralysis. I was in a lot of pain. For weeks the only words that came out of my mouth were, "I want to die." the pain had altered my level of consciousness, and I was not able to really process. All i knew was they wanted to hurt me more and I might not ever be able to walk again. I begged them not to do it. My mother signed the consents and they did it anyway. I remember sobbing and shaking while they did it, them telling me to stay still (if I moved too much, the chances of paralysis were much greater). I couldn't be still. I was in pain.
Anyway, it saved my life, i was cured and healed. In that instance, had it been my choice, i would have died.
In other instances, such as long term treatments for terminal illnesses, I think the issue gets cloudy. Why should a child be forced to have chemo or surgery, especially if the prognosis is not clear, or the treatment is only buying time, and not likely to cure the person?
In essence, I like Fallon's answer. I see it really as a family decision, and I would hope that most families would take the feelings of the child into consideration, and not prolong suffering if the person is tired of it. I think it might be necessary sometimes to bring in a counselor in order to dig through all the complex facts and emotions that go along with having a long-term, life threatening illness.
If you like this post, please tip me. All tips will be forwarded to ProgressiveU.org. Keep the site alive!
Submitted by H. L. Ikerd on Tue, 03/03/2009 - 8:37am.
I said yes because all people have the right to decide their own life. When any "life-saving" treament is performed, it is that person, regardless of age, who has to deal with any complications or consequences of the situation. I am aware that minor encompasses all under the age of 18 in the U.S., however, we all have a right to consult our parents/guardians and give consent according to whaat we understand and believe is right.
... but I guess what i really mean to say is that i don't think any treatment should be forced on a person, no matter what their age. Some parents will do anything, try any experimental treatment to save their child, and this is understandable: no parents want to bury their child. In the grand scheme of things, it's just not natural. If you're child doesn't want to be poked, prodded and in constant pain, let them have some sort of dignity. That being said, I have to agree that sometimes, teens are not the most rational. I don't think that anyone, no matter how old, would choose their hair over their life (if this is the case, then i would consider them mentally incompetent to make the decision either way); I have found that when people are faced with life and death situations, they tend to think a little more clearly. Do I think a 7 year old should be able to choose-- probably not, but then again, it's really about maturity. You'd be surprised what some 7 year olds know about their world. The point is, the question really comes to down to the individual, but I cast my vote on the assumption that the adolescent in this hypothetical is a mentally aware, relatively mature person. If this is the case, then yes. What happens to your body is your decision.
Submitted by omega512 on Wed, 03/18/2009 - 2:20pm.
Why should a parent be allowed to make a decision that will impact the rest of their lives? Maybe in certain cases if it is a young child the parent should make the decision, but if the person is over sixteen they should be allowed to make their own decisions. If they are old enough to drive why can't they make life decisions. If a parent makes a life changing decision and then the child turns eighteen it could be to late to reverse that decision.
I said no. Reason being that, as an adolescent, I know how we over dramatize things. If something happened to where we would need life saving treatment, there are some girls who would just want to die because they had to cut off all their hair or something of the like.
In addition, I think the parents should be involved until they're legal adults.
RESPECT LIFE
SMILE EVERY DAY
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
I said yes. Quite frankly, one's body is one's body - it doesn't belong to anyone else and no one should be able to tell you what you can and can't do with it. If you'd like to refuse treatement, refuse treatment. It doesn't cause me any grief.

-acertainsaint-
I said yes. Although I don't what the poll means by "life saving treatment." If that refers to being put on a respirator for the rest of my life, I certainly don't think I should have to do that. But if it's a one and done operation, of course I'd consent. Respectlife does bring up a valid legal point though- as minors, are adolescents allowed to make such a decision without parental consent?
I agree with A Certain Saint. One's own body is their own. Yeah, some adolescents are stupid. If they decide to do something stupid, it's their fault. End of story. At least that stupidity won't be passed on to the next generation, thus continuing that stupidity and stunting our evolution.
Besides, contrary to popular belief, teenagers AREN'T all stupid.
Try Toilet! Hah, I love this.
I'm Libertarian.
I hate to stereotype people, but adolescents do the dumbest things and are capable of making horrible decisions. They can't vote, they can't drink, they can't smoke, they mostly can't drive, but they should have the right to end their lives? The reason adolescents are under the care of their parents is because as a society we realize they're just not capable of handling their own lives, regardless of how mature they think they are. Some can, but most can't and it's only when they're older that they can look back and think how much more mature and rational they are now. How many kids would have never made it to adulthood if they controlled their own lives?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yeah, but most adolescents AREN'T stupid enough to deny life saving treatment. And if it'll only prolong the kid's suffering, who is anyone else to force it upon them? And if they deny it solely out of stupidity, well, it IS their fault...
Try Toilet! Hah, I love this.
I'm Libertarian.
They can't vote, they can't drink, they can't smoke, they mostly can't drive, but they should have the right to end their lives?
Yet they can work and if they work, have to pay taxes to Uncle Sam?
And in the case of that time between 18 and 21, where they can't drink, but can smoke, vote, and drive, they can also be drafted or voluntarily join the military and fight and die for our country?
And why is it that 18 is seen as this magical age when a person goes from being "another stupid, idiotic teenager" to a "productive, intelligent adult"? I've seen so many 15-year-olds that were more intelligent, mature, and capable than their 40-year-old parents.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
YEAH! I'm totally a productive and intelligent member of society...

-acertainsaint-
Do not use the military to promote your agenda. The military forces you to grow up fast. In basic training they break you down and build you up the way they want. I have seen the major change that come from just going though basic. So do not put those 18 year in the same circle as the juveniles that are in the civilian population. Just because someone is old enough to die for their country does not mean that they are ready to fight for their country.
As for working teens most state require that the kid be at least 16 in order to get a job and under child labor laws they are required to work less then 20 hours a week. Also, most parent that let their kids work in their teen years is to let them learn how to be responsible either for a car their, their own insurance, or to learn money management.
18 has become a magical year due to the fact that it is the year that the average adolescent finishes high school. Upon completion of school the state feels that the young person has been given enough knowledge to make it on their own. After that it is up to the parent to let them leave the nest. Many of the college bound student move to dorms and non college kids start the full time job and get an apartment and leave home.
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
With more kids graduating high school at 17, it becomes such a pain when they go away to college, but are still not legally allowed to make decisions for themselves because they're not quite 18 yet. Can't legally sign papers dealing with their own education and time. Can't apply for things like a safety deposit box at the bank, because they aren't legally adults. From that standpoint, 18 seems like a completely arbitrary age.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
Maybe the government should change the legal age to 17, but then you would have to deal with sophomores and juniors becoming legal and all the issues that would come from that. The Legal age has changed throughout history back in the 1800's it was 15.
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
Maybe we should get rid of the legal age altogether. Implement a journey into adulthood instead. Be they 18 or 7, anyone who feels ready to become an adult and do adult things will have to overcome a series of physical, mental, and grammatical tasks to prove they're worthy of adulthood.
It might look something like this:
"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Read my Blog!
Grammatical tasks!!!!
:yikes:
There would be a whole bunch of minors including my dear hubby :) Maybe if we grandfathered it in so that I would not face legal retribution???
Wait my grammar sucks too...did your law just negate my marriage???
There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin
I don't think my law negates your marriage because I think 18 to marry is an "age of license" and not an "age of majority." I could be wrong.
I think we could grandfather it in. Maybe everyone who is an adult will have a special tattoo, since you have to be an adult to get those anyway. Everyone who is already 18 and considered an adult can have the special tattoo, made from a special kind of ink that only special, adulthood-granting people will have possession of. We don't want people forging adulthood at any old tattoo parlor. Everyone else, from now on, has to prove themselves worthy before the sacred ink will inhabit their flesh. :P
"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Read my Blog!
What issues would those be? My sister won't graduate high school til she's 19 because she was held back a year. She'll turn 18 when she's a junior. So... what, she can legally smoke and buy porn when she's a junior? Whoop-dee-doo. She can legally drop out of school when she's 16, so what's the big difference? She'll still be living in my mom's house (well, she might be living in her dad's house) after she's of legal age? So what?
So, what issues would arise with having kids in high school who are of legal age?
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
What issues could arise? Well their are many. One dating lets say guy 1 turns 17 in his sophomore year and is dating a girl who is 15 and lets say that their relationship involves sex that means jail time for guy 1if they get caught. Two lets say there is a fight between two guys guy 1 is 17 and guy 2 is 16 that is assault guy one goes to jail and guy 2 gets a slap on the wrist. Three more kids providing illegal nicotine for their minor friends. Four most medical insurances only provided coverage of minors this kids would then lose coverage. Five higher drop out rate many kids would rather work 40 hours a week then go to school.
In your opinion do you think that your sister was mentally ready to be an adult when she was a freshman?
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
Well their are many. One dating lets say guy 1 turns 17 in his sophomore year and is dating a girl who is 15 and lets say that their relationship involves sex that means jail time for guy 1
Not necessarily. Most states actually have age gaps in place for their statutory rape laws for precisely that reason. In the states I've researched, it's 3 or 4 years' difference. Your case is no different than if they were 18 and 16.
Two lets say there is a fight between two guys guy 1 is 17 and guy 2 is 16 that is assault guy one goes to jail and guy 2 gets a slap on the wrist.
Again, the same would happen if guy 1 is 18 and guy 2 is 17 now.
Three more kids providing illegal nicotine for their minor friends
18 year olds do that for their younger friends, anyway. Hell, some parent will buy it for their older teenagers.
By your logic, kids would never be able to get a hold of alcohol or weed. I don't know about your school, but in mine, I knew who could supply either (or both) without much issue when I was a Freshman.
Four most medical insurances only provided coverage of minors this kids would then lose coverage.
Not if they're in school. Most insurances consider the child a dependent until age 24 if they're still in school (high school or college) and the "child" is still claimed as a dependent on things like tax returns.
Five higher drop out rate many kids would rather work 40 hours a week then go to school.
I'd like to see numbers where current 18-year-old high schoolers are dropping out to work full time just because they'd "rather be working." Most of the people I've seen that drop out to work don't do so because they want to, but rather because they have to in order to keep a roof over their family's heads and clothes on their backs.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Well, I think dragonwolf pointed out just about everything I wanted to. But I have a comment anyway:
I don't know, seeing as how my sister hasn't been a freshman yet. She's only in 6th grade. I'm not sure about the sister who actually has been a freshman either, seeing as how I didn't live with her, but now that she's 19, I still don't think she's mentally ready to be an adult. Then again, she's autistic.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
As an (almost) 17yo who will spend my entire first year of college as a minor (I won't turn 18 til mid-May of next year...whoopee!), I totally ditto this point. :P
RESPECT LIFE
SMILE EVERY DAY
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Do not use the military to promote your agenda. The military forces you to grow up fast. In basic training they break you down and build you up the way they want.
Just because you don't agree with my point of view, it does not mean I have an "agenda" to further. It's called making a point.
Yes, being in the military forces one to grow up (and the number of people that either drop out or get kicked out for not being able to withhold the standards of the military would suggest that not everyone does grow up, even in the military). However, being of age to be in the military does not automatically make them grown up, even if Uncle Sam says so.
Just because someone is old enough to die for their country does not mean that they are ready to fight for their country.
That's exactly my point. Just because they are chronologically old enough, it doesn't mean they mentally or emotionally are.
As for working teens most state require that the kid be at least 16 in order to get a job and under child labor laws they are required to work less then 20 hours a week.
Actually, Federal Labor Laws allow for teens as young as 14 to work (and if you include the family farm, there is no age limit at all). Yes, it's highly restricted in some states until 18, but they still can, and they still have to pay taxes on their wages. Also, a minor can, in fact, work up to 40 hours in a non-school week (such as over Christmas or during the summer) if they are 14 or 15. There are no limits for those 16 and older.
18 has become a magical year due to the fact that it is the year that the average adolescent finishes high school. Upon completion of school the state feels that the young person has been given enough knowledge to make it on their own. After that it is up to the parent to let them leave the nest. Many of the college bound student move to dorms and non college kids start the full time job and get an apartment and leave home.
That would be fine and dandy if it weren't for the fact that high school graduation is not the factor for determining whether or not one is an "adult," despite the fact that both the 17 year old graduate and the 19 year old graduate have left with the same education.
Even if one has graduated high school, it will be nearly impossible for them to get a job that will be able to support them on their own if they're not 18. Why? Because no one cares that they've graduated high school, even if they're in college, they're still a minor. They still can't sign contracts, they still can't work more than 4 hours at a time without getting a "lunch break." There are a number of statutes for employing minors that many companies won't even bother hiring them.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
http://www.wowzone.com/monkey.htm
I suppose I do not see the problem if the person happens to be facing his/her fifth round of chemo. and has all the facts and a bit of rationalism. Should the parents have the right to pro long suffering in this manner? I do not see this as ending their life but as being an adult for a few minutes.
How would this even be regulated for?
There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin
For something like that, I would think that the family would be able to discuss it and make a decision together. Yeah, it's the kid that's suffering, but the parents and siblings are going to be left behind and I think helping to make that decision would bring closure and comfort to them for the rest of their lives.
RESPECT LIFE
SMILE EVERY DAY
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
1) Not all adolescents are stupid.
2) My parents should not be able to decide what happens to my body. They're obviously going to be fighting to the end for my life, but if I'm really on the edge of death, it would seem to me to be an act of maturity to say 'no, this is enough. I'm ready to die'. Death isn't a horrible thing... it's just a natural phase of life. Some people can accept that, and others can't.
3) In the end, it probably doesn't make a difference one way or the other. Doctors can force a treatment onto someone by getting two (medical) opinions that the person was not of sound mind. If an adolescent is making the decision, and neither the doctors, nor the parents, agree, something can be done to reverse that decision.
~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!
I don't think adolescents are mature enough to make such a decision.
*~*~*~*~
I need some more input from y'all here in this forum topic: A ProgressiveU Radio Show/Podcast
I think this is an idea that can improve the ProgressiveU community and add a new dimension to t
I said "other," because I think it's really situational. Not only does it depend on what's considered "life-saving treatment," but it also highly depends on the person in question.
A superficial person would "just die" without so-and-so or such-and-such, and may even play up the whole matter (regardless of age) if they don't fully understand the weight of the matter at hand.
On the other hand, most people understand the weight of the matter when told "you will die if you don't get this treatment." And if the person is enduring enough pain and suffering and there's no prospect of getting better even with the life-saving treatment, then I think the option should be left open.
Like mvenus said, a lot of parents will fight tooth and nail to keep their child alive (as the saying often goes, "parents shouldn't have to bury their babies"). In some (many?) cases, the parents' fight for their child's life may completely disregard the child's quality of life. Yeah, you're kid's alive, but she'll never be able to live on her own and will require help just to take a piss for the rest of her life because she'll no longer have the mental or physical capacity to do so on her own.
I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge
Like others have said, I agree that one's body is their own and no one else's. That being said, there is a limit. I don't think people younger than 13 should be allowed to make those decisions, but from 13-18, it should be allowed.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/srhs-bandchic
^^^^ Take a peek ^^^^
Any particular reason why you picked 13?
There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin
If an adolescent wish to make the choice about life ending treatment then they need to be emancipate and leave on their own so they can make those decisions. Other then that I believe until 18 they need to fall under their parents directions and with any luck the parents will talk to their kids that have horrible life saving treatment that will prolong death but not return the child back to normal.
"Something given has no value"~Robert Heinlein
"Having been poor is no shame, but being ashamed of it, is." Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richards Almanack, 1749
...because of the fact that it is possible (though admittedly rare) for an adolescent to emancipate from his or her parents, and may be a afforded the rights of a legal adult at an earlier-than-usual age.
If you are a minor, then any major medical decision rightly belongs to and should be made by your parents or legal guardians. If you are of the age of majority, however, then that decision should be yours to make, alone.
TTFN,
Blackout
---
A question of love.
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
When I went through all the medical stuff as a teenager, treatment decisions were my decisions. My mother and grandmother stood by those choices when I made them because it was my health we were dealing with and they knew I would make the decision I felt were best for me. Certainly they could have negated my decisions at any time, but at the end of the day, it was my health in question and they wanted it to be my decision as much as it could be. I still think I made the right decisions for me and appreciate that I was given the chance to make those decisions myself.
When it's your life or health in question; you should have a say so long as you're making those decisions realistically (ie: deciding not to have brain surgery because you don't want to lose your hair would not, to me, qualify as realistic). For most people, teenagers included, when you find out there's something that could be potentially fatal you aren't thinking in terms of the superficial but about the realities of what that can mean. You want to know the risks of treatment, the risks without treatment, etc. You may be upset about potential hair loss or the like... but that's not typically what sways you to one side or another. Contrary to popular belief, when it comes to life or death decisions, teenagers aren't complete morons. They deserve a little more credit than that.
-----
"Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be equally outraged by silence" - Amiel
"The beginning of thought is in disagreement -- not only with others but also with ourselves" - Hoffer
-----
When i was 14 i was very ill, and in fact was dying. The doctors wanted to do a spinal tap and drain the excess cerebro-spinal fluid out of my spine. I knew the risks of permanent paralysis. I was in a lot of pain. For weeks the only words that came out of my mouth were, "I want to die." the pain had altered my level of consciousness, and I was not able to really process. All i knew was they wanted to hurt me more and I might not ever be able to walk again. I begged them not to do it. My mother signed the consents and they did it anyway. I remember sobbing and shaking while they did it, them telling me to stay still (if I moved too much, the chances of paralysis were much greater). I couldn't be still. I was in pain.
Anyway, it saved my life, i was cured and healed. In that instance, had it been my choice, i would have died.
In other instances, such as long term treatments for terminal illnesses, I think the issue gets cloudy. Why should a child be forced to have chemo or surgery, especially if the prognosis is not clear, or the treatment is only buying time, and not likely to cure the person?
In essence, I like Fallon's answer. I see it really as a family decision, and I would hope that most families would take the feelings of the child into consideration, and not prolong suffering if the person is tired of it. I think it might be necessary sometimes to bring in a counselor in order to dig through all the complex facts and emotions that go along with having a long-term, life threatening illness.
If you like this post, please tip me. All tips will be forwarded to ProgressiveU.org. Keep the site alive!
I don't want to go into details
“You cannot wean away an addict from the drug. It is not possible for me to walk away from Ranjha. If it is our destiny to be together then who, other than God, can change it?”
http://pakistaniat.com/2008/01/01/heer-ranjha-the-story-of-punjabs-first...
I said yes because all people have the right to decide their own life. When any "life-saving" treament is performed, it is that person, regardless of age, who has to deal with any complications or consequences of the situation. I am aware that minor encompasses all under the age of 18 in the U.S., however, we all have a right to consult our parents/guardians and give consent according to whaat we understand and believe is right.
... but I guess what i really mean to say is that i don't think any treatment should be forced on a person, no matter what their age. Some parents will do anything, try any experimental treatment to save their child, and this is understandable: no parents want to bury their child. In the grand scheme of things, it's just not natural. If you're child doesn't want to be poked, prodded and in constant pain, let them have some sort of dignity. That being said, I have to agree that sometimes, teens are not the most rational. I don't think that anyone, no matter how old, would choose their hair over their life (if this is the case, then i would consider them mentally incompetent to make the decision either way); I have found that when people are faced with life and death situations, they tend to think a little more clearly. Do I think a 7 year old should be able to choose-- probably not, but then again, it's really about maturity. You'd be surprised what some 7 year olds know about their world. The point is, the question really comes to down to the individual, but I cast my vote on the assumption that the adolescent in this hypothetical is a mentally aware, relatively mature person. If this is the case, then yes. What happens to your body is your decision.
Why should a parent be allowed to make a decision that will impact the rest of their lives? Maybe in certain cases if it is a young child the parent should make the decision, but if the person is over sixteen they should be allowed to make their own decisions. If they are old enough to drive why can't they make life decisions. If a parent makes a life changing decision and then the child turns eighteen it could be to late to reverse that decision.