Should suicide be unrestricted? (user submitted)

No. Suicide is never the answer.
32% (8 votes)
Maybe. It depends on the circumstances.
16% (4 votes)
Yes, as long as other options have been exhausted.
8% (2 votes)
Yes, under all circumstances.
44% (11 votes)
Total votes: 25
whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Hmmm Is suicide actually legal now? This site says that there are not really laws about it yet. I guess i should share the joke on the serious matter just for the hey:

Q: What's the punishment for suicide?

A: Life imprisonment.

Q: What's the punishment for attempted suicide?

A: Hanging.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2501/is-suicide-against-the-law

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Well, what I meant when I requested this poll was that by current law requiring people to intervene and mental health professionals to break the rule of patient confidentiality by alerting authorities if a patient seems to be a threat to harm themselves, these things are all in place because it is illegal.

It is not illegal in the sense that people go to jail or can be sued, but it is illegal in that legal rules are in place and legal authorities are mandated to intervene.

A person is sentenced to a minimum of a 72 hour involuntary stay in a psych hospital, which can sometimes become a year or more, instead of jail, but it is still illegal

If it was legal than therapists and psychiatrists would just say, "Go ahead," when a patient tells them they want to kill themselves.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I understand... I am for interventions because of the experiences I have had. That I believe life is worth living and find it very hard to understand otherwise.

I am glad you put it up for vote... its important.

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

Jsaj's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

It's ridiculous to make suicide a crime. First off, someone who's at that point isn't going to be swayed by it. They're not going to say "well, I was gonna kill myself, but since it's illegal...". Second, you can't punish someone for successfully committing the crime, unless you stray into the unusual. Lastly, treating someone who wants to die so bad that they tried, but failed to kill themselves like a criminal is probably not going to make them stop trying.
If anything, making suicide a crime will just make people more careful so that they're sure to succeed. Probably, though, it won't have any effect whatsoever.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

see my reply above to whispers awnesty.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

Jsaj's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I know that. I meant to say that it was ridiculous to have made suicide a crime.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson

A Certain Saint's picture

"you can't punish someone for successfully committing the crime, unless you stray into the unusual"

Will you marry me?

-acertainsaint-

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Did you just propose to Jsaj? You Jsaj is a male, don't you? Not that i have anything against that, just wanted to clarify.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I here by pronounce you Jsaj and A Certain Saint to be husband and husband to be unlawfully wedded in harmony here at ProU!

I love it! Any body have some rice to throw or bubbles to blow in ccelebration?

:dances:
Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

:rofl: Oh wait, perhaps we should wait to see Jsaj accepts before celebrating.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

:???:
I guess it could be important for Jsaj to accept for lawful purposes of this unlawful wedding but it’s to late... Jsaj will have to file for annulment and pay for the court fees.
:huh:

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

sawaboof's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association



"What a crazy random happenstance!"
Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog

Read my Blog!

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

:dances:

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

*Falls over laughing at the whole tangent.*

:rofl:



I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge

Jsaj's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I'm sure I've said yes at some point in the past and I stand by my word.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Now we can really celebrate. Come on sawaboof, you gotta put on some fireworks now!
Where will the grooms be registering for gifts?

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

Jsaj's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I believe in modesty. Nothing fancy please.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson

A Certain Saint's picture

Wow - you all made it pretty far off topic in the couple of days I didn't read ProU.

Yes - I am aware that Jsaj is a male with different religious beliefs. But he makes me laugh.

I didn't know WA was ordained.

We're registered where ever sarcasm is sold.

-acertainsaint-

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I self ordained years ago...plus you do not need to be ordained for unlawful weddings.

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

Jsaj's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Well, the whole Meek Dog vs. Flying Spaghetti Monster might be a problem, but I'm sure we could work it out.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson

A Certain Saint's picture

Liar - you're not the maid of honor. Son_of_Distruction is my best man, for the record.

-acertainsaint-

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

:rofl: And who will be supporting Jsaj?

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

A Certain Saint's picture

Whomever he so desires, quite frankly. As he has not made his wishes known, I cannot begin to make an educated guess.

-acertainsaint-

Jsaj's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

hmm. That's a tough one. Maybe Krystal (?) The IPU girl, or asmaw.

"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I will venture that they are registered with the ProU shop.

Here is the plug for that :)
ProgressiveU Shop

There are very few human beings who receive the truth, complete and staggering, by instant illumination. Most of them acquire it fragment by fragment, on a small scale, by successive developments, cellularly, like a laborious mosaic.~- Anais Nin

A Certain Saint's picture

Of course, of course. Orders can be shipped to my house. We're also registered at Macy's, The Home Depot, Target, Wal-Mart, Bed, Bath, and Beyond, and other shoppes across the nation. Cash always works, too. Tis the season for giving, y'all, and who better to give to than me? :-P And Jasj, too.

You know what, fuck it - I hate the : -P smiley. I really do - it's ugly. :grin:

-acertainsaint-

_Meke's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I understand that most people who want to commit suicide are depressed, but there are other things that depressed people do that are not illegal. People drink, eat, pop pills, cut themselves, all to their detriment, but i don't think any of those things is illegal.

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

to the point of coming close to death, they are usually treated as if they attempted suicide and are usually locked up for a minimum of 72 hours, provided they survived

Cutting oneself is also just as illegal as suicide. A teacher who sees a child cut themselves is mandated to report that and have the child evaluated.

Just because the sentence is different than traditional crimes against others doesn't mean that our culture allows people to do these things without consequence.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

as there seems to be much confusion about how suicide is already illegal. Perhaps the question should read:

"Should suicide be unrestricted?"

That would mean that no one would be allowed to interfere with someone attempting suicide. If I see someone hanging from their door at the hospital I should not call for help or get the person down.

If I find my child cutting her wrists, I could be legally prosecuted if I attempt to take the knife away from her.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I am not sure if in any circumstance that this would be possible:
"If I find my child cutting her wrists, I could be legally prosecuted if I attempt to take the knife away from her."

For a child I think it is diffrent. We do not know the reasons, the child may not understand. The whole point of being a parent or legal guard or even adult is to make sure children live to see a better day. But, again, I come from the 'life is worth living' gang.

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

Suicide is never the answer...What is with all the poll questions being about death? This one about suicide and the last one about assisted suicide. If you are thinking of this..get help there are people out there who love you!

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

I put up the poll about assisted suicide, because I read a news article that Montana is the third state to permit it for terminally ill patients and was curious about it.

I changed it to this one about suicide because turtlesuds suggested it in the last poll, and we generally don't like our polls to be up forever.

~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I don't know exactly why, but I thought it was Whispers Awnesty. Anyway, thank you.

I tend to agree with you whenever you talk about medical nonintervention and death. I have read other posts where you suggest that it might be more humane to not force life onto a dying human.

I apologize if I have misread you.

It's just that the last poll made me feel that people were confusing physician assisted suicide with actual suicide.

I wanted a distinction.

Generally I am not against physician assisted suicide, but I really do think that the best option for the terminally ill is hospice, which I have pointed out provides a person with a means of committing suicide easily by consuming the weeks supply of morphine in one to two hours.

I don't know how to vote in regards to suicide. I am very conflicted. Like I have said, I have saved people who regretted the action, and it has been discovered the act was in response to a sudden and sever biochemical shift secondary to a new psych med. I have also attended funerals for others who had tried multiple times before finally succeeding.

One thing I can say as a life observer (not preserver) is that children of parents who commit suicide suffer terribly. I find it hard to put such pain on a scale and compare it to other kinds of pain. Suffice it to say that a child who survives the death of a parent by suicide is going to battle with that reality his/her entire life.

Should we give such parents a free pass? I don't know.

To be honest, this is where my pro-choice arguments come in. How is it a benevolent thing to let an unwanted, unparented child be born, allowed to grow in a foster care system, and reproduce? The alternative is to abort the unwanted child and deliver it back into the heart of God.

Isn't suicide a "cardinal sin?" I am sorry if I mislabeled that, I was not raised Catholic.
Nonetheless, there is a degree of severity of sin. I am suggesting that giving birth to an unwanted child that ends up committing suicide is a worse sin than delivering a soul destined to suffer back into the heart of God.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

Life and death is an issue I struggle with ethically, but for the time being, it's still rather abstract to me. I mean, I hear stories like Fallon's (she struggled a lot last year with her wards, and ending up quitting her job at least partly because of it), but I've never really experienced someone wanting to commit suicide.

Still, I can't fathom why people would want to force life upon someone whose quality of life just isn't there anymore. It seems cruel. And as a doctor, I know that I will face these sorts of situations. So, like you, I'm generally not against physician assisted suicide. I know the other poll got into a lot of discussions revolving around other topics, such as just removing life support, which isn't suicide.

As far as actual suicide, without any help, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think it's probably the best solution for some people, but in general, it's really not. Suicide is something that should be taken lightly by any means, and it can be prevented by a good support system.

~C
Check out the latest entry in the Between The Lines column!
Want the highest rated list to change? RATE those blogs, then!

whispers awnesty's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

As always... If you have any suggestions we would love to here it. We always welcome participant’s participation.

Love is like a box of chocolates; if you chose wisely you won’t be disappointed and have to spit it out. ~T

http://www.progressiveu.org/forums/support/ideas-and-suggestions-0

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

to be dealt with individually.

I am the one who asked for the shift in the poll. I am finding myself disenchanted with ProU secondary to it's overwhelming pro-suicide tone.

I have seen multiple blogs started by someone contemplating suicide followed by smug encouragements to go ahead.

The poll about assisted suicide made me realize that even those who I thought to be more exposed and enlightened were overwhelmingly in support of suicide. I am deeply disturbed.

I don't want to write off ProU, and I hope that this poll will give me reason not to.

I love human beings. Every single one of them. If they want to destroy themselves in front of me when I am outnumbered, I have no choice but to walk away and pray.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I am finding myself disenchanted with ProU secondary to it's overwhelming pro-suicide tone.

I disagree, to be honest. From what I've seen, there is very rarely anything about it. But then again, people find what they look for, so it's possible I'm just not looking.

I have seen multiple blogs started by someone contemplating suicide followed by smug encouragements to go ahead.

If that's the case, and it's on this site, please, by all means, flag it and let the moderators know. Like nearly all of us have mentioned here, such topics should not be taken lightly.

The poll about assisted suicide made me realize that even those who I thought to be more exposed and enlightened were overwhelmingly in support of suicide. I am deeply disturbed.

Someone else mentioned something along these lines, as well. However, I think it only appeared that way because of how the poll was broken up. When you combine the two that leaned more toward "no," you find that it was closer to an even split than "overwhelming" in either direction.

Suicide, and death in general, is a topic that makes most people extremely uncomfortable, but does that mean we shouldn't talk about? I don't think so. Talking about an issue opens doors to understanding. Understanding can help change things. In this case, perhaps it can help prevent people from wanting to commit suicide.



I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

It helps. I was responding to posts from last year. If I can find the comments I was talking about again, I will flag them.

I was talking about this with my husband and he said that he is pretty sure there is a law now that holds people accountable who choose to encourage people to commit suicide as accessories.

Such comments should probably be deleted by ProU.

I agree that it should be talked about.

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

cosmic's picture

I voted "suicide is never the answer," but let me clarify my answer: I don't mean it should be illegal to commit suicide or we should prosecute those who attempt it. That would be adding a lot more problems for these people who clearly don't need any more. I mean that no one should ever feel that he or she needs to commit suicide.

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

society should deal with it? Is it a personal matter, not to be discussed? Does it warrant non-profit suicide prevention programs?

Should we ignore it, agreeing to abide by Darwin's laws of survival?

It is not enough to agree or disagree that it is okay? One person's life is not all that personal. One person's life affects several if not many lives surrounding it.

What is one person's life obligated to provide for the lives it decides to birth?

"Consistency is not a human trait" - Maude, from Harold and Maude

cosmic's picture

A moral society should have an interest in preserving the life of each and every one of its members. People often commit suicide because of feelings of worthlessness and rejection, and I think every life has intinsic value. So, we should do everything in our power to prevent it, especially since newer medical science sees suicide not as a moral failing but as a condition (almost like a disease that can be cured).

I think making suicide illegal is unnecessary because society already restricts it, without, though, the threat of prosecution and punishment.

Of course, this only applies to people with emotional problems (something treatable and not worth killing yourself over)- it doesn't address people who want to die to end their own suffering. But, that was the point of the last poll, so don't want to bring up old topics... As a side note, I think the reason that assissted suicide is viewed so unfavorably in America is because of our firmly held belief that all life is always valuable.

respectlife's picture

I voted that it is never the option. I think that the high suicide rates makes it all the more important to be honest with people...let people know how much they mean to you and how much you love them. Never let a true word go unsaid. Look on the bright side and think along the terms of "half full." That sort of thing. I think it's so sad that people are willing to throw away the most precious gift of life. It breaks my heart to think of it and I hope that all have the courage to keep moving and think ahead to a better future if their present is less-than-great.

RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa

blackout's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Question: Who owns YOUR life?
Answers: 1) YOU or 2) The Government.

TTFN,
Blackout
---
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.

A Certain Saint's picture

3) Your personal invisible friend (God, The Mighty Meek, The FSM, etc.)

-acertainsaint-

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