Submitted by mvenus929 on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 4:08pm.
I think it depends on both the gestational age and the type of crime committed. I wouldn't say that someone should be charged with murder if the zygote/fetus had barely developed, and I wouldn't say someone should be charged with murder if the 'killing' could only be tangently be related to the miscarriage. For example, shooting a pregnant woman in the stomach should be charged, but scaring her to cause her to go into premature labor because you're holding up a bank she's in... not so much, especially if the baby survives delivery.
~C
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Yeah, that probably could have been more specific. By commission of a crime I was thinking more about shooting, rape, assault, etc. I suppose it just doesn't make sense to me that in some states it's considered feticide, which carries a lesser penalty than does murder, up until a specific gestation, when that gestational age is often far past the gestational age in which a child can survive outside the womb. 22-23 weeks gestation is viable (with medical intervention), but some states still have it as 7 months.
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Submitted by mvenus929 on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 5:08pm.
Yeah, I definitely think that if there is two different criteria, it needs to be split at the point at which the fetus becomes viable. But of course, all laws are gray, so there's no way to make a clear statement that covers every possibility.
~C
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Submitted by chelsea.correa929 on Thu, 05/08/2008 - 4:59pm.
I think it depends on the situation.
if it was an accident, like say, a car accident. i think not, esp if it was something that could not be helped. saythe pregger hit the other car or something,
people have been jailed for that when it was no fault of theirs..
like the guy who lost control of his truck and hit a 3 month pregnet woman on her was to the abortion clinic, she was going to abort the baby anyways and yet still pressed charges.
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Submitted by Green Underbelly on Fri, 05/09/2008 - 7:47pm.
Funny I came to the car accident scenario as well. I don't have any definitive answers to this poll. Seems to blog over my head on a Friday night.
The Once-ler: Well, what do you want? I should shut down my factory, fire a hundred-thousand workers? Is that good economics, is that sound for the country?
Submitted by myrasantos on Fri, 05/09/2008 - 9:07am.
I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I AGREE WITH THE POINT OF WHAT IF THE WOMAN WAS GOING TO GET AN ABORTION. ID DEF SAY NO. BUT IF IT WAS AN INTENTIONAL KILLING OR VIOLENCE I SAY YES. AN WHOS TO SAY WHAT AGE? IS IT WHEN THERE IS BRAIN FUNCTION OR A HEARTBEAT. IS IT A MONTH BEFORE ITS DUE OR WHAT?
EITHER WAY KILLING A BABY IS JUST WRONG
Submitted by lancekates on Fri, 05/09/2008 - 10:56am.
In my view, it doesn't matter the 'stage' of development. However, I wouldn't want double manslaughter charges on someone who accidently killed someone who was pregnant.
If there is someone who knowingly kills a Pregnant woman, then yes. Double Murder.
I wanted to say yes, after a certain gestational period, but I'm unsure. That is the requirements I see for abortion, that it is not murder until a certain point, but this is different. I am pro-choice, not because I approve of discarding fetus', but because I think that the mother has the right to end the pregnancy, up to a certain point, because it is going on in her body. In this situation, that choice is being taken out of her hands and that is wrong. I really don't know what the answer is. I know the answer is yes, but under what conditions, I am unsure.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
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I don't think there should be any connection between the rules governing abortion and fetus murder charges. Even if a baby which could have been legally aborted is killed, the fact that the mother intended to keep her baby should make the killing, at any stage in gestation, a full blown murder charge.
I disagree. Murder is the taking of a human life. I don't consider the fetus a human life before a certain point in gestation. If I did, I would be pro-life. The assailant should be charged with something, but murder, I don't know.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
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Submitted by Esuffern on Fri, 05/09/2008 - 11:18am.
The problem with "at any gestational age" is, what if her pregnancy isn't evident? Or what if she didn't even know she was pregnant? I think it makes a different if the person committing the crime had no way of knowing the woman was pregnant.
Submitted by pkubik08 on Sat, 05/10/2008 - 9:51pm.
I love how the most popular vote was the second one. A lot of people on this site say that the fetus is not a human until a certain stage, but now people are agreeing (in a way) that the baby is a human.
I chose the second one, because it wasn't that person's choice other than the mother's if she wanted to keep the baby.
Submitted by Violinstef on Sun, 05/11/2008 - 3:56pm.
I guess that having a fetus die in the commission of a crime isn't really a part of the crime itself. It's more of an involuntary abortion. I think that the criminal in question should be charged with assault if s/he attacks an individual, pregnant or not. If you start claiming that a fetus who dies in a car accident was a victim of manslaughter, then we've got a problem. That would probably lead to abortion being outlawed in this country because then the death of any fetus would be called a crime.
Submitted by fireconsumemysoul on Mon, 05/12/2008 - 8:36am.
Abortion is legal and not considered a crime yet, abortion is terminating the life of a child, but if a pregnant woman's child is killed in another act, it's murder. It doesn't make sense...
~Em
I think it depends on both the gestational age and the type of crime committed. I wouldn't say that someone should be charged with murder if the zygote/fetus had barely developed, and I wouldn't say someone should be charged with murder if the 'killing' could only be tangently be related to the miscarriage. For example, shooting a pregnant woman in the stomach should be charged, but scaring her to cause her to go into premature labor because you're holding up a bank she's in... not so much, especially if the baby survives delivery.
~C
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Yeah, that probably could have been more specific. By commission of a crime I was thinking more about shooting, rape, assault, etc. I suppose it just doesn't make sense to me that in some states it's considered feticide, which carries a lesser penalty than does murder, up until a specific gestation, when that gestational age is often far past the gestational age in which a child can survive outside the womb. 22-23 weeks gestation is viable (with medical intervention), but some states still have it as 7 months.
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~Fallon~
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't- A. France
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Yeah, I definitely think that if there is two different criteria, it needs to be split at the point at which the fetus becomes viable. But of course, all laws are gray, so there's no way to make a clear statement that covers every possibility.
~C
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I think it depends on the situation.
if it was an accident, like say, a car accident. i think not, esp if it was something that could not be helped. saythe pregger hit the other car or something,
people have been jailed for that when it was no fault of theirs..
like the guy who lost control of his truck and hit a 3 month pregnet woman on her was to the abortion clinic, she was going to abort the baby anyways and yet still pressed charges.
The past is the past, you can not change it. So don't dwell in your mistakes, Pick up the pieces, and instead learn from your downfall.
Funny I came to the car accident scenario as well. I don't have any definitive answers to this poll. Seems to blog over my head on a Friday night.
The Once-ler: Well, what do you want? I should shut down my factory, fire a hundred-thousand workers? Is that good economics, is that sound for the country?
I don't know, I put other. What if the woman was planning on having an abortion?
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I'm gonna betch slap the dumb outta you
I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I AGREE WITH THE POINT OF WHAT IF THE WOMAN WAS GOING TO GET AN ABORTION. ID DEF SAY NO. BUT IF IT WAS AN INTENTIONAL KILLING OR VIOLENCE I SAY YES. AN WHOS TO SAY WHAT AGE? IS IT WHEN THERE IS BRAIN FUNCTION OR A HEARTBEAT. IS IT A MONTH BEFORE ITS DUE OR WHAT?
EITHER WAY KILLING A BABY IS JUST WRONG
Please don't type in all caps. It has the connotation of yelling on the internet, and I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to be yelling.
The age would undoubtedly be the point of viability. As Fallon mentioned above, this is around 21-22 weeks.
~C
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In my view, it doesn't matter the 'stage' of development. However, I wouldn't want double manslaughter charges on someone who accidently killed someone who was pregnant.
If there is someone who knowingly kills a Pregnant woman, then yes. Double Murder.
I wanted to say yes, after a certain gestational period, but I'm unsure. That is the requirements I see for abortion, that it is not murder until a certain point, but this is different. I am pro-choice, not because I approve of discarding fetus', but because I think that the mother has the right to end the pregnancy, up to a certain point, because it is going on in her body. In this situation, that choice is being taken out of her hands and that is wrong. I really don't know what the answer is. I know the answer is yes, but under what conditions, I am unsure.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
I don't think there should be any connection between the rules governing abortion and fetus murder charges. Even if a baby which could have been legally aborted is killed, the fact that the mother intended to keep her baby should make the killing, at any stage in gestation, a full blown murder charge.
I disagree. Murder is the taking of a human life. I don't consider the fetus a human life before a certain point in gestation. If I did, I would be pro-life. The assailant should be charged with something, but murder, I don't know.
"Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos."
Homer Simpson
The problem with "at any gestational age" is, what if her pregnancy isn't evident? Or what if she didn't even know she was pregnant? I think it makes a different if the person committing the crime had no way of knowing the woman was pregnant.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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I love how the most popular vote was the second one. A lot of people on this site say that the fetus is not a human until a certain stage, but now people are agreeing (in a way) that the baby is a human.
I chose the second one, because it wasn't that person's choice other than the mother's if she wanted to keep the baby.
I guess that having a fetus die in the commission of a crime isn't really a part of the crime itself. It's more of an involuntary abortion. I think that the criminal in question should be charged with assault if s/he attacks an individual, pregnant or not. If you start claiming that a fetus who dies in a car accident was a victim of manslaughter, then we've got a problem. That would probably lead to abortion being outlawed in this country because then the death of any fetus would be called a crime.
~Violinstef
Abortion is legal and not considered a crime yet, abortion is terminating the life of a child, but if a pregnant woman's child is killed in another act, it's murder. It doesn't make sense...
~Em
I agree with you, but others will say that it is just tissue, not a child and not alive.
In some countries that are more 'nuanced' than we, they extend this ability to terminate until even a few months past birth.
I must admit, the "yet" scares me.
~Violinstef
I think the yet was meant to be like an "although," rather than a "this is going to happen someday."
or maybe it doesn't. But that's how I read it. :-)
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