Observations on Debates and Personality Types

ProgressiveU is a place of passionate debates, no doubt. I'm generally attracted to topics of more an abstract nature and have recently been most intrigued by the debates that invariably crop up around religion. One thing I've noticed, though, is that the people that are actively participating in the debates are nearly always very firmly on one side of the fence or the other. A few of the prominent writers have also mentioned that they do a lot of their debating with the people of the opposite spectrum not for the other vocal person, but for the less vocal readers, who are supposedly "on the fence" about it.

Now, while some topics truly have people on the fence due to things like, say, lack of knowledge of scientific evidence (the global warming issue, for example), other topics that, by nature, don't have scientific basis (primarily because they're issues of morals and ideals, as opposed to facts and figures) I've noticed that the various people who are one side or the other tend to share similar personalities with those on the same side, and are quite opposite to those on the other side.

Well, I was catching up on my personal blog's buddies and such and one of the topics of someone's blog was personality tests (including the well-known Myers-Briggs test), and it got me thinking.

Now, I can't say for sure that this is the case, but it seems to me that it would explain a lot about the people that engage in some of the various debates on the site. For example, I'm an INFJ, and it is evidenced by my stances on several different issues. However, I know of a couple people here who I'd venture to guess are ESTJ and ISTP, and the emphasized characteristics on this site are the middle two, which describe how a person perceives the information they get from the world around them.

Here's what Wikipedia has to say on those two dichotomies:

Sensing and intuition are the information-gathering (perceiving) functions. They describe how new information is understood and interpreted. Individuals who prefer sensing are more likely to trust information that is in the present, tangible and concrete: that is, information that can be understood by the five senses. They tend to distrust hunches that seem to come out of nowhere. They prefer to look for details and facts. For them, the meaning is in the data. On the other hand, those who prefer intuition tend to trust information that is more abstract or theoretical, that can be associated with other information (either remembered or discovered by seeking a wider context or pattern). They may be more interested in future possibilities. They tend to trust those flashes of insight that seem to bubble up from the unconscious mind. The meaning is in how the data relates to the pattern or theory.

Thinking and feeling are the decision-making (judging) functions. The thinking and feeling functions are both used to make rational decisions, based on the data received from their information-gathering functions (sensing or intuition). Those who prefer thinking tend to decide things from a more detached standpoint, measuring the decision by what seems reasonable, logical, causal, consistent and matching a given set of rules. Those who prefer feeling tend to come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it 'from the inside' and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved.

It always seemed to me that there was a fundamental difference between the people in the various debates, and because of these fundamental differences, the debates would never truly end. I couldn't pinpoint it, though, until I saw the Myers-Briggs test again. I'd venture to guess that the fence-sitters on the abstract debates are such because they share, in part, a similar personality trait (perhaps an *SF* or *NT* or even a swinger, that sits squarely in the middle of one of the sets), but not a close enough match to share the same views already.

What's this mean for the people on the site? I don't know, to be honest, except that we'll probably never agree with the people that are our opposites. Of course, those who are, for one reason or another, already aware of that are also the ones who don't talk to the people with whom they are debating, but instead, to the passive readers.

Anywho, this was pretty much just a thought I wanted to share and I feel like I'm rambling, so I'm going to stop now.

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

Interesting theory you have. I just took a quick Myers-Briggs test, and it says I'm ISFJ, though the middle two are definitely less certain than the outside two (I have a 12% preference for S and a 25% preference for F, though I have a 78% preference for I and a 67% preference for J).

I'd be interested in seeing you fleshing this out a little more. :)

~C
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I'd have to figure out more to write on it, which is my biggest problem. Hopefully some more comments will help with that.

Yeah, while I'm an INFJ, I'm really close to the F/T border -- something like 12% -- especially compared to the I/E one, where I'm at a firm 68%.



I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge

Funny, I took this test in a book called "Do What You Are". I was trying to determine what would be the best career for me at the time. I made my whole family take it too. Turned out my father and I were the EXACT SAME type and we represented about less than 2% of the nation. Which we both agreed just confirmed how completely weird we are.

I know what you mean about the debates. I've noticed that the more convicted a person is, the more likely they will sound out. The louder their voice will be. I call these people "fringe people". They linger in the black and white zones and rarely venture out into the grey. Those who do venture out into the gray might not be "on the fence" as much as they simply might be more philosophical than others.

I challenge people on their views no matter what side of the fence they are on. But I always come from a philosophical POV, not a moral one. It is difficult to get people to question their own views. It is more natural to many to just pick a side and run with it until they die. But if you never venture into the gray areas, you might just be missing the chance to evolve.

turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

Wow! I guess someone's been busy! I try to reply, it takes forever to get the window to load, and smiley's are manic. A crazy new rating system to boot.

anyway, I really like this post. eltmoore, I love your thoughts on gray areas. They have a special place in my brain.

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sawaboof's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I'm an INFP... but I border on P and J.

I like your ramblings. :-)


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turtlesuds's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

in a psychology class. I am an INFP, but only marginally an I vs. an E.

I found the whole thing to be very insightful and accurate. Almost as good as an astrology birth chart, LOL.

In general, I think there is something to the premise of the original blog. However, I know a lot of people who are J over P and are not very intuitive at all, who swear to the logic in their religious beliefs.

I think its all about thinking outside of boxes. My *opinion* is that certain atheistic logicians who ignore intuitive and creative thinking are not much different in personality types from certain religious followers who think their moral code is the only logical way of living.

i find such fixed thinkers a bit dull, and sometimes dangerous. I have more respect for the atheistic logicians than the religious pseudo-logicians, because at least the atheists know the nature of logic and reason and aren't arguing falsely.

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chillbill's picture

Here is an online test:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

My score:

"Your Type is
ENTJ
Extraverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
22 62 38 44"

These type tests are fun, and do provide some insight, but they over simplify the complexity of personality. With regard to religious debates most types are probably represented on both sides.

"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."
--Andre Gide

cosmic's picture

Thanks for the link; the test was interesting. According to it I'm an INFP (with per cent strengths of 75, 50, 25, 22). The "introverted" part is definately accurate.

Though I think you should take everything from the internet with a grain of salt. Same goes for psychology (no offense to psych major/career people out there), so I agree with you on that point. Psychology is too much of a reductionist science which I find inappropriate for analyzing people.

Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

I think anything that tries to describe human behavior in generalities needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, this even includes the Psychology fields (and to a somewhat lesser extent, the medical field), particularly because even a trained Psychologist can only go off what the patient/client says. If the person excludes something, the results become less accurate. This is one of the main reasons why Bipolar disorder is often misdiagnosed as Depression at first -- a person goes to a doctor because they're depressed, but doesn't tell the doctor about the manic times (generally because they don't think it's an issue), so the doctor only knows about the depression and either does something about it based on that information or tries to ask different questions to uncover the manic upswings.

There are always exceptions to the rule when dealing with generalities, especially when dealing with human behavior. The thing that I find interesting, however, is that (at least in my experience), in broad terms (not specific reactions, but overall behavior), people generally do fall into various categories.

A fun experiment to try at the next team building meeting is to have everyone take the test and report their results. There's a very good chance that you'll see commonalities between the people in the same positions and within the loose groups that have probably formed.



I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do. ~D. Dale Gulledge

blackout's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

ISTJ...interesting.

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bridge's picture
Volunteer for the Progressive U Alumni Association

...how coincedences happen? For example, just last week my entire class took this test. This was how my teacher separated us into our groups for our final project.

I'm an INFJ too dragonwolf.
Introverted: 39
Intuitive: 50
Feeling: 12
Judging: 11

Those last two suggest I'm barely an FJ, but it still somehow counts. Hmm.

I concur with everyone else on the "interesting blog" remark.

cosmic's picture

Interesting that everyone's who's posted here so far is an "I" for "introvert." Kind of makes sense, though, seeing as we're all chatting here on the anonymous, impersonal internet, while sitting alone at our computers feverishly typing away our personal musings...

mvenus929's picture
Managing Director of Progressive U

Well, a lot of how they define introverts isn't about being alone or not being social... it's about feeling most comfortable out of a group. You may be the life of the party when you do go out, but for introverts, it drains to do that, and we unwind by being alone. Extroverts, on the other hand, unwind by going out and partying.

~C
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