Quesion I've been wondering for a while:
Are we supposed to separate church and state? Because from what I've seen, it's mixed.
People want to take the word "God" out of the Pledge of Alligence, because some people don't believe in God. Okay, isn't that crossing over into church in state affairs? We can't say "Merry Christmas", it's "Happy Holidays!" because we don't want to offend the other religions. Are these new norms the work of local government, and is that somehow why it doesn't apply?
And now it's gay marriage. I personally support gay marriage, because I believe in the First Amendment that gives me the right to think what I want and follow what I want, and I don't think it's right to call love "sinful" just because it's between two people of the same sex, but that's a rant for another day. Laws are being passed, and all I hear on the "other" side is that "I believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and" ....well, isn't that violating the church and state separation?
I'm terribly confused, and I'm thinking it must be a matter of some seriously wrong loopholes in the law. Can someone give me a hand in understanding this better?
When does it cross the line?
By fromtheashes - Posted on November 21st, 2008
Well, the "under God" was added to the pledge alligence in the 1950s becuase of the Cold Wars. the goverment wanted the public to be more patriotic and proud of our religious rights that we celebrate here ( the Soviet Uniion denied people's religious rights. )
in understanding the history of the phrase i understand that the phrase intially wasn't place there to make a statement that we all believed in God, but a statement that we could worship freely.
Thanks, I never looked at it that way before, and I didn't know about it having been added during the Cold War.
That fact is conveniently overlooked when the hysterical Christians start having fits about the "War on Christianity" and such.
"Never go with a hippy to a second location."
~Jack Donaghy
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
There is supposed to be separation of church and state, but I think some people are a little too zealous in pursuing it, and the attacks on "under God" and "in God we trust" are examples of that. I find it a little ironic that the ultra-secularists who oppose even the faintest trace of religion in the public sphere are just as fanatical and evangelical as their religious extremist counterparts.
...about the pledge if it weren't THEIR religion that had managed to sneak itself under the wall of separation. How would you feel, for example if the pledge had been altered to read, "One nation, under Buddha?" Or, "One nation, under Allah?" Or, "One nation, under Zeus?" Or "One nation, under Satan?" If the tables were turned, I think most christians would freak out just as much as (and probably more that, if we look to history as a guide) the "ultra-secularists." And if you would not be willing to let a government employee lead pledge their allegiance to "One nation, under Satan," then you cannot consistently defend the idea that "One nation, under God" is somehow an okay exception to the rule against religious establishments.
TTFN,
Blackout
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?" ~ James Madison
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People want to take the word "God" out of the Pledge of Alligence, because some people don't believe in God. Okay, isn't that crossing over into church in state affairs?
That line was crossed when religious groups banded together to ADD the phrase "under god" to the pledge in 1954.
We can't say "Merry Christmas", it's "Happy Holidays!" because we don't want to offend the other religions. Are these new norms the work of local government, and is that somehow why it doesn't apply?
As a private citizen, you can say whatever you want. If you are a government employee, however, and are acting an official capacity as a representative of The People, you may have to edit yourself in order to avoid making an unconstitutional misstep.
And now it's gay marriage...Laws are being passed, and all I hear on the "other" side is that "I believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and" ....well, isn't that violating the church and state separation?
Yes, it is.
TTFN,
Blackout
-------------------------
Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
Hey thanks, especially on that holiday greeting business, I was curious.