I made a post a few days ago about the Desecration of the Eucharist on YouTube (http://progressiveu.org/node/49101). Throughout the comments, there was a lot of disputing about the reality of the Eucharist as the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Because of this, I’ve put together some points explaining some of the reasons why I personally believe in the Eucharist. Because of the length of each segment, I’m separating it into three sections. Skepticism is understandable, but there does come a point when skepticism merely becomes denial. Enjoy!
2. The Bible
Not only are there many aspects to the Eucharist that coincide with the Passover of the Old Testament (which I’ll skip, but will explain, if anyone’s interested later), there are many things in the New Testament which bring me to the conclusion that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ. Going under the assumption that the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament are reliable historical documents (which has been proven) and reliable Christian documents (duh), here are some Eucharistic passages. Please note that if you do not accept the Bible, then you will not accept this as proof. This is for those who respect the Bible as the Word of God.
(1) The big one for me is John 6.
John 6:48: “I am the bread of life.” (Notice “I am”. Christ has many “I am” statements throughout the Gospels.).
John 6: 51: “I am the living bread, which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live forever and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” (Again, “I am”. Christ is God made man, hence, he “came down from heaven.” “Live forever”? Heaven. “the bread…is my flesh” He states is SO clearly!!!)
John 6:52: “The Jews then disputed…” They took Him literally and could not believe Him. “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
John 6: 53: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” (“Truly, truly…Jesus always said that when He was really serious. Also, note how He’s confirming His earlier words. He’s not saying that it’s a symbol. He’s saying it’s His flesh and His blood.)
John 6:54-58: “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” (Notice that by this point, Jesus has said that His flesh and blood are food multiple times, never once indicating that it’s merely a symbol)
John 6:60: “This is a hard saying.” (They had a hard time believing Him. What would be so hard to believe if it was merely a symbol?)
John 6: 66: “After this many of his disciples DREW BACK and NO LONGER WENT ABOUT WITH HIM.” (emphasis added) (They LEFT Him. Did He call them back?”)
John 6: 67: “Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?”” (NO. Jesus would never have let such a crowd leave him over a misunderstanding. He must have meant that His body and blood became food and drink!)
(2) Then there’s the Last Supper:
“This is my body” (Mk. 14:22; Lk. 22:19; Mt. 26:26)
“This is my blood” (Mk. 14:24; Lk. 22:20; Mt. 26:28)
(3) One final Bible passage I will include is 1 Cor. 11: 27: “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.” (Wow…big stuff…PROFANING. Why would you have to be “worthy” if they were just crackers and juice? Nothing special about that…but the BODY and BLOOD of Christ? Yeah, I’d say you’d probably need to be worthy.)
Pt 1: Science
http://progressiveu.org/blog/49404-eucharist-real-presence-1-science
Very good to see that there is a second part to the first blog.
What you said was amazing: "Skepticism is understandable, but there does come a point when skepticism merely becomes denial." HALLELUJAH!!!
To me, communion is symbolism. Jesus used so much symbolism in the Bible - is the kingdom of God really as big (or small) as a mustard seed? I don't think Jesus actually fed the discipled his flesh and blood, as he said to break the bread and drink the cup in remembrance of Him.
The bit at the end (taking communion in an unworthy manner) is understandable. Jesus sacrificed everything for us, so we might as well do a small duty and take it with a righteous heart. What that means is we have accepted our cross and be walking with Christ everyday - unbelievers cannot take part in communion. It is also the believer's responsibility to make sure that his heart is in right-standing with God when he does take communion. If the guidelines by Paul are followed, then God is honored and no one profanes His Name or sacrifice.
Read and comment as you like....http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/starving-musician
: ) Glad you liked it...I was kinda proud of myself for coming up with that. LOL
Well, whereas Jesus does use a lot of symbolism, He mostly does it in parables. And He tends to introduce it..."here this PARABLE", "the kingdom of heaven is LIKENED to", etc...however, in John 6, as well as all the verses during the Last Supper, Christ says "this IS". Also, He repeats "this IS" multiple times during John and people left Him for it. That's why I don't think that part is symbolism.
Your interpretation of Paul's words makes sense, so I suppose it could be that interpretation, as well.
God Bless!
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
True, Jesus specifically uses the words "is" and "is like", but to go off on Blackout's question, when do the sacraments turn into flesh and blood? If they have the appearance of bread and grape juice, do they transform after the prayer/blessing, and does only the taste change and not the appearance? That's the only thing I'm getting hung up on - that part doesn't make sense to me.
Read and comment as you like....http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/starving-musician
Well, our belief is called transubstantiation. It's where the substance changes, but the accidents remain the same. In other words, the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ while remaining under the appearance of bread and wine. There is no difference in shape, color, taste, or anything of the like. We believe it occurs during the Mass at the words of consecration.
Really, it makes sense that only the substance would change because we, in our human nature, would probably feel revolted if the accidents changed, as well. Also, when you think about the reality of life...how God created the world out of nothing, how Jesus was of a virgin birth, how God became Man, how God had no beginning and has no end, etc...once you take all that into consideration, the fact that God allows us to be spiritually enriched by His very self under the appearance of bread is really not that hard to believe. : )
Here's a Catholic site that explains a lot about it, if you're interested:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#section3
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Well, our belief is called transubstantiation. It's where the substance changes, but the accidents remain the same. In other words...
In other words, its a bunch of made up hooey that takes a rediculous explanation to give people who aren't smart enough to realized they're being fooled an excuse to believe things that obviously aren't true.
TTFN,
Blackout
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
But here's where I get hung up on. I totally believe that God could make a dishwasher fly if He wanted, though I'm not sure what good that would do. Obviously, it's totally possible for God to do anything He wants, but I have a hard time believing that we're actually eating Jesus. Communion, to me, is symbolic of Christ's resurrection. If we're to do something in remembrance of someone, that doesn't mean we eat them.
I don't know - I still think it's symbolism, but I'm not sure I totally understand what you're saying, so maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you're saying.
Read and comment as you like.... http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/starving-musician
Well, in the Protestant faiths, it is symbolism. I'm not sure what church you go to, but if they have a communion of sorts, that is symbolism. Our priests are ordained under a certain ritual by a bishop who can be traced back to the apostles (well, most of them can...it's pretty neat. They have a list of what bishop ordained him and what bishop ordained that guy and it goes back hundreds of years).
And I understand how it would be difficult to believe and understand. But whereas Christ did say "do this in memory of me", he also said right before that "this IS my body" and "this IS my blood". The Last Supper is what we believe to be the first Mass where Christ literally gave the apostles His Body and Blood. We also believe that Calvary is redone at every Mass in an unbloody sacrifice (whereas Calvary was a bloody sacrifice).
Does that help any?
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
Somewhat, but you definitely threw me when you said that Calvary was redone at every Mass. That I most definitely don't agree with.
Plus, saying that the Eucharist is the real thing whereas communion is symbolism is almost like saying Catholicism is better than the other denominations of Christianity. This I don't agree with at all, as there are a few things in the Catholic faith that are not established in the Bible.
Read and comment as you like.... http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/starving-musician
Well, I'll ask my spiritual director for a better explanation of that. We believe that it's the same sacrifice (Jesus only died for us once), but I guess a good way of putting it is that it's a reenactment...but it's not. IDK how to explain it, but I'll get back to you on that.
What are some things about Catholicism that aren't in the Bible? Also, we go by the Bible and tradition. One reason for this is because no where in the Bible says that the Bible is the only source of teaching. Also, the Bible wasn't put together until the 5th century. Because of this, then there would have had to have been 400 years between the the time of Christ and the establishment of Christianity. Up until recently with mass production, the Bible was difficult for especially the poor people to get a hold of. Finally, there are many different ways of interpreting the Bible and thus private interpretation is good, but potentially dangerous.
No, I'm simply stating that Protestant faiths only take Christ's words as symbolism and have crackers and juice in remembrance of Christ. Catholics, on the other hand, believe and treat His words literally and thus, our belief that the Eucharist is God under the form of bread and wine. : )
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa
When you eat the "flesh and blood" during a Eucharist, what does it taste like? I remember participating in this ritual during my youth, and the "flesh" always tasted like a cracker to me, and the "blood" always tasted like grape juice. If this change is "real" (as you have claimed), shouldn't it taste different?
TTFN,
Blackout
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
During transubstantion, the substance (body to flesh, wine to blood) changes, but the accidents (appearance) remains the same. Therefore, the appearance and taste do not change. I remember when I received my First Communion, we had a practice the night before with unconsecrated hosts. The next day, after I Mass and I received my First Communion, my dad asked me how it was. I responded that I was disappointed because it didn't taste any different.
But remaining under the accidents makes sense, because it would probably really difficult for the majority of people to receive communion if it actually looked like flesh and blood.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
During transubstantion, the substance (body to flesh, wine to blood) changes, but the accidents (appearance) remains the same.
So the crackers and grape juse REALLY turn into flesh and blood, but they still taste like crackers and grape juice...RIIIIIGHT. LOL.
TTFN,
Blackout
"Theology is never any help it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything." ~ Robert A. Heinlein
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Check out Progressive PRIDE, a Gay-Straight Alliance for the Progressive U community.
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm just bothered by the fact that you actually think you're participating in cannibalism, and that this is some holy thing. I mean, the Protestants just see it as symbolism... becoming one with Jesus and everything, which I can wrap my head around. But you evidentially think that the crackers and juice actually turn into flesh and blood, which would make you a cannibal.
~C
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Yeah, I suppose you could take it that way. However, the way I view it is that God made Man comes into my body and strengthens me to fight evil in my life.
RESPECT LIFE
http://progressiveu.org/blog/respectlife
"It is poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
~Mother Teresa