Banner day at work today. I watched porn with my boss.
Brain Drain, my 11 ½ -year-old charge, discovered internet porn this weekend. He managed to keep it secret for all of three days before his mom discovered it in the computer’s history. I got a frantic call from BossLady asking, “Have you been watching porn on the computer during naptime?!” I said no, of course not! She responded, “Shit. You have to get back here and watch this with me.”
As it turned out, the links were all You Tube videos, which were pretty tame, but certainly not PG. BossLady settled down a little bit, but was still pretty frantic. BossMan came home from work and they had a seriously intense conversation about how to handle it. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue. I got to mediate.
BossMan thinks it is hilarious. BossLady thinks it is perverse, dangerous, and the beginning of a life of porn addiction. She is also worried that the images he sees online
will lead him to objectify, degrade, and exploit women. She is accusing BossMan of under-reacting, while he is accusing her of overreacting. I talked them both off the ledge.
As the most technologically savvy person in the room, I tried to express to BossMan that internet porn can, in fact, be very dangerous for kids. I suggested using some kind of internet filtering program, with the caveat that filtering programs tend to over-filter, making parental permission necessary to access even the library, whereas porn sites out-program the filters faster than they can update. Web filters won’t be a viable option when the kids hit high school and have to do serious research, but a filter might buy them some time to get their act together.
As a fifteen-year nanny who has been through this before with other families, I tried to convince BossLady that this is normal behavior for a boy going into sixth grade, and that they as parents need to present a unified front and talk seriously with Brain Drain about what is and is not safe Spank Bank material. (Yes, I said the words “Spank Bank” to both of my bosses). BossLady did not like my suggestion that they provide him with something more appropriate, like some casually placed Victoria’s Secret catalogues, or a Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. An eleven-year-old does not need much *ahem* inspiration, so these might satisfy his curiosity about the female body without exposing him to the snuff films, rape fantasy, and child porn that are easily found on the internet.
We live in a different world than the world in which BossLady and BossMan grew up. While BossMan is right that boys will be boys, BossLady is also right to be afraid of the potential exploitation of her son. Sex offenders often supply their potential victims with pornography to convince children that they can be trusted with secrets, and to convince the victim that sex between adults and children is normal (FBI).
According to the Child Trends Database, 76% of U.S. homes with children have access to the internet. Teenagers spend between 10 and 15 hours a week engaged in non-school related activities on the internet. Parents can’t possibly watch every minute of computer use, but there are a few steps they can take, and the earlier they start implementing these steps, the better. The following list of recommendations was compiled by the FBI:
What Can You Do To Minimize The Chances Of An On-line Exploiter Victimizing Your Child?
- Communicate, and talk to your child about sexual victimization and potential on-line danger.
- Spend time with your children on-line. Have them teach you about their favorite on-line destinations.
- Keep the computer in a common room in the house, not in your child's bedroom. It is much more difficult for a computer-sex offender to communicate with a child when the computer screen is visible to a parent or another member of the household.
- Utilize parental controls provided by your service provider and/or blocking software. While electronic chat can be a great place for children to make new friends and discuss various topics of interest, it is also prowled by computer-sex offenders. Use of chat rooms, in particular, should be heavily monitored. While parents should utilize these mechanisms, they should not totally rely on them.
- Always maintain access to your child's on-line account and randomly check his/her e-mail. Be aware that your child could be contacted through the U.S. Mail. Be up front with your child about your access and reasons why.
- Teach your child the responsible use of the resources on-line. There is much more to the on-line experience than chat rooms.
- Find out what computer safeguards are utilized by your child's school, the public library, and at the homes of your child's friends. These are all places, outside your normal supervision, where your child could encounter an on-line predator.
- Understand, even if your child was a willing participant in any form of sexual exploitation, that he/she is not at fault and is the victim. The offender always bears the complete responsibility for his or her actions.
- Instruct your children:
- to never arrange a face-to-face meeting with someone they met on- line;
to never upload (post) pictures of themselves onto the Internet or on-line service to people they do not personally know; - to never give out identifying information such as their name, home address, school name, or telephone number;
- to never download pictures from an unknown source, as there is a good chance there could be sexually explicit images;
- to never respond to messages or bulletin board postings that are suggestive, obscene, belligerent, or harassing;
- that whatever they are told on-line may or may not be true.
- to never arrange a face-to-face meeting with someone they met on- line;
The FBI does not mention anything about providing a safe Spank Bank, but perhaps that is a little off topic for their purposes. In Brain Drain’s case, I think it’s just what the (love) doctor ordered.
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/pguide/pguidee.htm
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/69homecomputeruse.cfm
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I didn't know they had porn on You Tube - then again I don't spend much time there myself. The kids do, however, so now I'm paranoid....
Sorry. See below (or above, depending on your comment preferences) for your reply.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Yes they have porn on You Tube, I went to work before i had my baby and the kids were talking about this one "show" called "Two Girls One Cup" DO NOT LOOK IT UP.
They would not tell me what it was about but showed it to me, i got into 10 secs before i ran out to the bathroom, now all they will show are the reactions, but it's nasty.
I had to write rteports on all 15 kids and call their parents.
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And I am glad they no longer show it. The Wikipedia entry made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
But, see? That's the kind of stuff kids can get into! That does not give them a healthy introduction to sexuality.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
There's a LOT of bad stuff on YouTube, and you don't even have to intentionally look for it to find it. People who post bad things will tag it with every tag imaginable so you accidentally find it when searching for car repairs or whatever.
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There's some pretty nasty stuff on there, but you have to sign up for a profile to see it. The stuff Brain Drain got hold of was just girls romping in bikinis and making out with each other.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
If he's only on youtube and not signed up, he's really in no danger. I think the most important thing is to not talk to people online unless he knows them, and to explain what porn is. With a healthy (?) view of what porn is, I think it'll lessen the objectification of women. Be open and honest. If LadyBoss makes a huge deal about it and forbids any, well, you know what will happen. However, if it's left at "funny" and ignored, there is more danger.
I think that the biggest problem LadyBoss has is that her little boy is growing up. It's like that with a lot of mothers I know. They want to stay in denial that their babies are sexual beings. Great idea on the Victoria's Secret catalog!
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
I have to credit my little brother with the VS catalog idea. My mom discovered a stash of them under his mattress when making his bed one day when we were teenagers. I had apparently been getting them for over a year, but had never seen one because he got home from school first and squirreled them all away! There were 30 or so under his bed. Lumpy sleeping, but I guess sleep isn't a priority of teenage boys.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
How did your mom react to finding them?
My friend Kelly has a 13 year old boy. One day on the phone, she was bitching about how he spent so much damn time in the shower, "doesn't he know we all have to use that water?!" I just laughed. I told her she might want to buy some extra conditioner. (Keep in mind my guy friends will talk about EVERYTHING in front of me)
I had to break it to her that it was past sex talk time. She was so very much in denial just because she wasn't ready to think about the fact that he will be thinking about sex with other people soon.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
She laughed and asked me if I wanted them back. Uh...no. No I did not. Ew.
My parents were always a lot more permissive with my brothers and sex than they were with me. If I even mentioned it, I got shut down, but my brother got condoms in his christmas stocking.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Pride in the boy having sex, and shame in the girl even thinking about it...
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
I like to tell them it's the reason I'm a lesbian. That and having to wear Toughskins jeans throughout my childhood. (I was hard on the knees of pants). That's another double standard! They only made Toughskins with the reinforced knees for boys. There were no girls' Toughskins! Because girls are supposed to play quietly in the house. But they are NOT supposed to play with themselves quietly in the house!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Too funny!
Most of my clothes growing up were hand-me-downs from my brothers. even my younger brother. No Toughskins though. I always wore the knees out. And still do, and now I also have oil stains on the three pairs of jeans I have that actually almost fit me.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
So part of the idea was that maybe Toughskins would survive long enough to be handed down to my brothers. I wore a lot of gender neutral clothes. And, no, not one pair of Toughskins survived the rollerskating years, which were immediately followed by the fort building years, and then the playground basketball years. They didn't have a prayer.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
Fantastic blog. With the huge gap in techno-knowledge between parents and kids, it's really important that parents get educated. I think you made a good move, suggesting they leave the Victoria's Secret catalogues around.
Common sense is as rare as genius. ~Emerson
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When my son was barely able to climb up to the chair to reach the computer he managed to pull up in three seconds flat some Japanese Porn!!!! Luckily they have stricter laws and all the 'good stuff' was blanked up. I am sure you can imagine my panic and the expletative not coming from my mouth when I saw that. I locked the heck outof my computer after that.
The best filter so far as I can tell is a communicative understanding parent with clear rules and guidlines.
The 'public' computer sounds like a good idea
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
Do you know if he actually went looking for it, or if he just found it? You don't even have to search for that stuff on youtube. Aside from what Bridge said about tags, it pops up in the promoted videos section all the time. :-/
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He was typing "google," but accidentally typed "gogle." Gogle is the title of a video about a bunch of kids laughing...nothing bad at all, but the side bar was full of more lascivious titles. He clicked them all! Naked Britney Spears, Hot Israeli Girls Get Naked, Two People Getting It On, etc...
Like I said, none of it was terrible (the titles are always inflammatory...kinda like my blogs,
?), but now he's had a sampling of what's out there...
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
YouTube is both a terrific resource and perhaps the world's worst website. I've used YouTube many a time to find free exercise videos, classical music performances, and I've even put some links in my posts to better emphasize a point.
Its horrible as far as the scope of what's on there. Yes you can find porn on YouTube and that's probably its worst offense, but do you really need to be able to watch a guy get smashed in the nuts for the nth time? Or people getting hit by a car? Most schools have serious internet filters on their computer systems at school, and if you absolutely need to get a site that is blocked you have to get permissions from the computer lab teacher or librarian. I was appalled to find out the YouTube wasn't blocked at one of the schools I sub at. I swear, if you take your eye off of a middle schooler for even a second they will find the worst possible video on there to show their friends. I guess its a good thing the computers don't have speakers connected to them....
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent." - Victor Hugo
Yup, I'm a music nerd.
On google you could type in like underwear or even something not sexual and it will bring up porn sites. My friend once typed in a website we normally got on and misspelled something and it went to a male on male porn site. Of course her being young and inmature put it in favorite places 20 times and screwed up the computer. We were like 12 years old. I once typed in underage drinking for research and it brought up sites that described in bold underage girls having sex. I was like c'mon this is annoying.
These things can be easily came across by typing in simple words and it is rather annoying. Those are good tips and a good blog. :)
http://www.progressiveu.org/032913-lupus-uncureable-wait-what
Love comments? I do too!
Yeah, no matter WHAT you're searching for, if 'underage' is a part of your search, you'll get porn, which I think is disgusting. I don't have a huge problem with porn when everyone involved is an adult, but the underage sites make me angry, even if the girls are over 18 and pretending to be underage. The mere suggestion of a child's involvement is gross.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
I have to ask... "Spank Bank"? What's that?
============
http://progressiveu.org/062647-ohmigawd-did-you-hear
(Latest blog. )
It is a stockpile of masturbatory material. Magazines or even mental images and whatnot. It gwoss! Not that I'm judging, or anything.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
I can't believe you had to go through with that. That is probably the most awkward experience of your life. But, I'm undecided about how I feel about your victoria's secret exposure idea. On one hand, it does decrease the violence and promiscuous sex seen by the child by other means like internet porn, but it could also be seen as the gateway drug to porn. If the son 'enjoys' the Victoria's Secret catalogue, it could lead to a degradation of women, and after it gets boring to him, he could keep going higher and higher. Communication here, I think, is the key.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nharris1032
I think we just found the stem root of all sexism and objectification of women (if you want to admit there is such a thing)... Down with Victoria Secrets!!! Down!
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
I am sensing a little sarcasm...(Maybe)
Haha. Well its the thought process behind it. You look at a magazine to look at a woman's body so you don't care about anything besides her body. This does create a different mindset in a young boy than what women would want him to have...but please don't take down Victoria's Secret, saying I am a guy.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nharris1032
I am a feminist, so I am right with you in not wanting women to be objectified. On the other hand, as a feminist, I recognize the choice that women who pose in their underwear or swimsuits make. I also recognize that boys and men have a different sex drive and different approach to sexual satisfaction than the majority of women do. This is what makes me okay with VS and SI as spank bank material. Boys will be boys, but if they do so using material in which there is no question about the woman's choice to pose, that's fine. If they are using the seedier porn, which can be degrading, drug induced, coerced, etc., they are condoning a situation that disempowers women.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
On one hand, BossLady was clearly overreacting. Just because Brain Drain was watching racy stuff on YouTube doesn't mean he will become a sex offender or raped by one. When boys hit puberty, they think about sex. A lot. It continues for a really long time. All you can really do is let them know the dangers out there and hope they don't get hurt or hurt anyone.
On the other hand, porn spamming is a serious issue. The problem is as you said about filters. The internet is always changing, along with software and programming techniques in general. People will always find a way around filters or firewalls or any type of protection that's out there. It's easy to tear a virtual wall down, but it's impossible to put an impregnable wall up.
"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands."
~~Douglas Adams
You are right in that porn does not create rapists, but it does enable them. If I have an anti-social personality disorder (complete disregard for the consequences of my actions) and I see porn and say "O, I want that," I will stop at nothing to get that. Although this is only a specific case, you never know what will happen if you take a pessimistic approach and enable looking at porn (or turn the other way). BossLady was right in that she should react the way she did. Porn is bad, and if it is allowed, it could eventually lead to rape. It is the gateway drug of sex.
And something needs to be done about porn spamming. Unfortunately, I am not computer-savvy enough to even start to think about an end-all, but as you said, an impenetrable wall is impossible to set up.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/nharris1032
I recently wrote a blog about sex education and am interested to hear other viewpoints. Please read it and comment. http://www.progressiveu.org/171241-comprehensive-sex-ed-should-we-be-tea.... Thanks.
My son just started doing PBS Kids play on the internet, and I'm already aware that he can flip to stuff that his four year old development isn't ready for. I just monitor his use at this point. Later we'll see what kind of programs they have avaialble for filters. I am just skeptical of what gets filtered such as healthier explorations of sexual terms etc.
My Blog: www.progressiveu.org/blog/jlepp-journey
As it stands now, any site with the words magna cum laude gets filtered. So kids can't access university sites or libraries without a parent's password. Like I said, it's not going to work once they get older. I think that, given a couple of years to get used to her son as an adolescent and not a little kid anymore, BossLady will be more comfortable with just letting them have free reign so long as the computer is in a common area. She's reacting right now like one of those moms with a wandering child who puts them on a leash. I can't say I blame her, though. It is a scary world.
Also, PBS kids rocks! Such good stuff!
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman
I used to do that also...what if kids get smart and start deleting the history and what not...how do you find out then...i think you need the filter
Well everything has loopholes but there is a computer tracker. You can save all files and whatever in an adminstrator password protected 'invisible' file and see what the 'computer' has been doing ... I am not personally sure I would feel right about that but I have seen it out there. Just another product to avoid talking to your family.
~T
All truths are easy to understand once discovered; The point is to discover them ~Galileo
One of my friend's dad put something like that on his computer. It basically took screenshots and logged keystrokes on the computer, then sent an e-mail to an account with a summary of everything that was done.
Talk about an ultimate invasion of privacy... especially since my friend was 18 (or nearly so... I can't remember exactly when it was put on. It was a few years ago).
~C
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But does an 11-year-old have the same expectation of privacy? This is where I'm torn. At what point does protecting him become spying on him? I just don't know.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/ediblewoman