The most important factor that shapes my belief on this subject is that I am a Christian. Now before you go judging me thinking "all Christians think the homsexuals are evil" because I am strongly against that. However, I still believe that homosexuality is wrong because that is what the Bible says. Also, it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, think about it. Reproduction in humans occurs when a man and a woman have sex. Male and female parts fit together. If you ask me it's pretty obvious that that's what's natural.
I do not believe that all homosexuals or lesbians have brain defects. Some people probably do. And I do believe that some people can just be born like that. I just don't believe that everyone who is a homosexual is born that way. I hate to say it, but homosexuality has become just a trend for a lot of people. You'll see kids running around saying they're gay just because they think it's cool. It's deffinitely not cool to be fake just because you think it will make other people like you.
Just because I think homosexuality is wrong does not at all mean that I won't claim a friend or family member because they are gay. One of my best friends is a lesbian and I still treat her exactly the same way I did before she came out. My problem is when homosexual Christians say that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual. If you're really a Christian you would admit that you're wrong when you do something the Bible says not to do and you'd try to change and ask God for forgiveness. Never would I ever say I'm perfect. I make plenty of mistakes but I'm constantly trying to move away from those sins in my life. Of course every once in a while I'm going to do it again because I'm human and I'm not perfect. It's just that I believe if you're a Christian and you really love God the way you say you do, you'll do your best to please Him. That goes for anyone, homosexuals, alcoholics, drug addicts, adulterers, idolatrists, the sexually immoral, murderers, liars, whoever. The Bible says that all sins are the same and that's what I believe.
The thing that really breaks my heart is to see Christians bash homosexuals like their sin is the worst in the universe and tell them that they're evil. They're not evil just because they're stuck doing something you believe isn't right. Christians are supposed to be loving and accepting to all. And I really hate that a lot of Christians will act as though they've done nothing wrong knowing that they do and still tell homosexuals that they're the ones who are doing wrong. If I tell anyone that I think what they're doing is wrong, I'm going to point out my flaws as well. And if that person wants to change along with me, then we can help each other. I just hate that the Christians who do this are the ones we hear about. They give the rest of us a bad name.
Basically, my point is that I think homosexuality is wrong BUT the people who are homosexuals are not evil nor do they deserve to have rights taken away from them. All men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right?
I like the way you write this out. At least you're willing to accept homosexuals. Now, I'm just going to throw things here and there for you to think about...for fun?
Most people assume we're heterosexuals the moment we are born. Just because women's and men's bodies fit together? How do you know they fit together? Because they make babies! But if you study sexology, you'll find out a lot more about our sexuality. If you've experienced a homosexual experience, does that mean you're gay? If you've experienced a heterosexual experience, does that mean you're straight? It's about act, body, and identify. Roles of sex and gender are also a part of this. I'm trying not to get religions involved with homosexuality because you can't really prove if a religion is true, can you? It's like we've been programed everyone is supposed to be heterosexuals because it's the "purest" form of love. Everything we do in life, like getting a boyfriend/girlfriend or going to prom, prepares us ultimately for marriage...which most people define as something that is done between a man and a woman. Why is that?
Christians people are very open these days though. I'm glad. Thanks for the post.
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http://www.mylot.com/?ref=truelife
You know what? I never really read a lot about other views unless I have to do it for school. I don't know why, I guess I'm just not too much into it. But I think I should start doing it on my own. So thanks for putting that out there because i think it's great when you study not only what you believe, but other theories too. It'll keep you more open to what others have to say and help you understand where they're coming from. And I deffinitely know that just because you've had a homosexual experience that it doesn't make you gay and vice versa. To be honest, when I was little I went both ways. And I used to be so scared to say it because my parents would always make a big deal out of people being that way. I didn't understand it then, though because I was young..around five or so. But I know that I was never into it. I did it because I thought that since most people did it, I was supposed to do it too. And I know that a lot of homosexuals feel that way. Like just because everyone else is straight, they're supposed to be that way too. It's a really touchy subject for me because I feel for them, but at the same time I think it's wrong. It's frustrating. But thanks for the comment =]
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"the measure of love is to love without measure"
"of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been"
"either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing"
Jesus aid that you judge a tree by the fruit it yeilds. Be cautious when you assume that a certain behavior is inherently evil. There are plenty of other behaviors forbidden in the old testament that are VERY COMMON today.
Have you:
Eaten pork
ever had sex outside of marriage
Said Gods name
failed to tithe
sworn an oath
coveted your neighbors.....
You get the picture? No one is saved under that law. We are all sinners. Judging that sin is impossible from a sinful human vantage point.
Love your gay neighbors as much as you are commanded to love all of gods creation.
"My problem is when homosexual Christians say that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual."
I think you can be sure they'll have a problem with you saying there is.
A fact is always better than an ideal
I never said that their behavior is evil. What I said was that I hate when people tell them they're evil, because I don't believe that they are. But what you're saying is exactly my point. Who are we to judge? I'm not judging them. I'm simply restating what God has already said. And if you went on to read after I said that the problem was them saying there's nothing wrong with it, I said that all sins are equal. Meaning there is no one greater than the other. So in saying that I was implying that all sinners who are stuck in one sin need to admit that their sin is wrong. I thought I made myself clear, apparently not =/
---------------------------------------------
"the measure of love is to love without measure"
"of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been"
"either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing"
Umm, you do know that lesbians are homosexuals, don't you? I mean, why the different categories. OK, now, on to the blog itself.
"Now before you go judging me thinking "all Christians think the homsexuals are evil" because I am strongly against that." Consider yourself not judged...yet.
"However, I still believe that homosexuality is wrong because that is what the Bible says." The Old Testament Laws are meant to be for Jews only and the original Christian text was talking about prostitutes, I believe. I don't speak Greek so I'm not positive. However, some OT laws are followed by many Christians. This, for no reason whatsoever, is one of them. I guess god changed his mind about pork, but not homosexuals. And, because the bible said so arguments are problematic, since, at the very least, the bible is flawed in that it contradicts itself. Genesis 1- different account from Genesis 2.
"Also, it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, think about it. Reproduction in humans occurs when a man and a woman have sex. Male and female parts fit together. If you ask me it's pretty obvious that that's what's natural. " The definition of natural is something that occurs in nature, so, as a matter of fact, it is natural. And, homosexuals can reproduce, either through in vitro fertilization or just having heterosexual sex. It's possible.
"I do not believe that all homosexuals or lesbians have brain defects." ........................................What?......... Well, umm, that's good, but what does that have to do with anything?
"Some people probably do." Yes, and that includes heterosexuals.
"And I do believe that some people can just be born like that." My problem here is the word 'some'.
"I just don't believe that everyone who is a homosexual is born that way." Look at it this way. As a heterosexual person, which I imagine you are, can you possibly conceive being sexually attracted to the same sex?
" hate to say it, but homosexuality has become just a trend for a lot of people. You'll see kids running around saying they're gay just because they think it's cool. It's deffinitely not cool to be fake just because you think it will make other people like you." I think that more people are comfortable coming out of the closet. That's why there seem to be more. As for kids saying that it's cool. The message here, I would wager, is that they don't mind.
"Just because I think homosexuality is wrong does not at all mean that I won't claim a friend or family member because they are gay. One of my best friends is a lesbian and I still treat her exactly the same way I did before she came out." Acceptance, I buy. Tolerance, I buy. Treating them well, I buy. But not the same. It's not psycologically possible. You think that something that is an immensely important part of her identify is evil.
"My problem is when homosexual Christians say that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual. If you're really a Christian you would admit that you're wrong when you do something the Bible says not to do and you'd try to change and ask God for forgiveness." They believe that Christ is the savior. Maybe, they have been able to come to terms that parts of your religion are horribly outdated. Most people cherry-pick. Why can't they?
"Never would I ever say I'm perfect. I make plenty of mistakes but I'm constantly trying to move away from those sins in my life." Yes, but, you see, you're not attracted to the same-sex. You don't want to spend your life with someone of the same sex. You can't help who you love and being forced to reject who you are is wrong. You said so yourself.
"It's just that I believe if you're a Christian and you really love God the way you say you do, you'll do your best to please Him. That goes for anyone, homosexuals, alcoholics, drug addicts, adulterers, idolatrists, the sexually immoral, murderers, liars, whoever. The Bible says that all sins are the same and that's what I believe." The bible also says that women should serve men. And, it is a sin for women to wear pants. And, female homosexuality isn't mentioned in any holy-book. And, Christians aren't Jews, so they don't have to worry about being homsexual, according to the only place where that is the law in any way.
"Basically, my point is that I think homosexuality is wrong BUT the people who are homosexuals are not evil nor do they deserve to have rights taken away from them. All men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right?" That sentament takes a lot of moral fiber and intelectual courage and I commend you for it.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
but some girls would rather be called "lesbian" rather than "homosexual." That's why I keep saying both of them.
Is it your place to judge me? Or my place to judge you? Not at all. So don't judge me period.
The OT laws are not written out. The difference with them is that Christ died so that we could be forgiven. In the OT, if a person was homosexual, or if they caused a woman to have a miscarriage, stuff like that, they were to be put to death. Christ's death made it so that even when we make mistakes like that, we can still be forgiven and have eternal life with Him as long as we believe ALL that he says.
Genesis 1 and 2 do not at all contradict themselves. Genesis 2 is just more descriptive than Genesis 1. It's kind of like the account of Judas' death in the NT. There were 3 different writings. They all said the same thing but with different words. All you have to do is put them together. The Bible never contradicts itself =].
That fertilization stuff isn't natural. The natural way to reproduce is for a man and woman to have sex. So do you still think homosexuality is natural?
A lot of ppl say that people are homosexual or lesbian because they're born with some brain defect. That's what it has to do with.
Yeah, I said some. I don't think that all homosexuals are born that way. Can you prove that they all are? I can tell you that I can't prove they all are, and I can't prove they're all not. So I'm just going to guess that all of them are not, but some of them are.
Sure, a lot of people are probably more comfortable with coming out, but I still know that a lot of kids just think it will make them cool.
No, no, no. I believe that what they do is wrong or "evil" if that's what you want to call it. But that in no way means I think of them as evil. So yes, I do treat them exactly the same as I did before. If you would treat someone differently because you found out something new about them that's fine. But don't place me in that category.
I say if anyone thinks part of their religion is "out-dated" then they don't need to believe it. And for the record, religion is man's way of reaching God, doing good works to save themselves. Christianity is God's way of reaching man. That's why He sent Jesus, His son, to die for us. That's how we're saved. So Christianity isn't a religion. Nothing we do can get us into heaven. All we have to do is believe. And through believing we will desire to do God's will. So either way you look at it, Jesus saves us. We don't save ourselves. And "cherry-picking" is wrong no matter who does it. If you don't want to believe it all, then don't believe any of it.
And like I said, all sins are equal. You can come out of any sin if you really want to. If you really love God, you'll want to do His will, no matter how hard giving up a sin is. He'll take it away. All you have to do is ask Him for help.
You're taking it out of context. The Bible does not mean that woman should be treated as slaves. It just means that the man is the head of the household, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the provider and protector. Of course that doesn't mean that women shouldn't work. There is proof in the Bible of women making income as well. If you have a Bible look up Proverbs 31: 10-31. It's all right there.
You know, you're right. It doesn't speak of women in homosexuality. But why would God say it's wrong for men if it isn't wrong for women as well? Not all Christians are Jews, you're right. But there are Jews who are Christians. They're called Messianic Jews. But like I've said, Christ died for everyone so that we all may have eternal life if we believe. So yes, everything applies to everyone. Please give me the Scriptural passage where it says that it's a sin for women to wear pants! I've never heard that one.
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"the measure of love is to love without measure"
"of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been"
"either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing"
"but some girls would rather be called "lesbian" rather than "homosexual." That's why I keep saying both of them." OK
"Is it your place to judge me? Or my place to judge you? Not at all. So don't judge me period." As a matter of fact, when you put your opions out there, I have every right to judge them, just as you judge mine. And, if you want the judgement, I disagree that homosexuality is wrong, but I respect you for understanding that your viewpoint should not mean that rights should be denied to homosexuals.
"The OT laws are not written out." Yes, they are. They are written out in the OT. That is why so much of the book is outrageously dull.
"The difference with them is that Christ died so that we could be forgiven. In the OT, if a person was homosexual, or if they caused a woman to have a miscarriage, stuff like that, they were to be put to death." True. The Old Testament laws are rather vile, but, of course, they didn't have to worry about an eternity in hell, which is a Christian principle. Everyone would get a second chance when the massiah came. That was the massiah in Judaism. Peace would come to the world and the dead would rise. Not really fufilled by Christ.
"Christ's death made it so that even when we make mistakes like that, we can still be forgiven and have eternal life with Him as long as we believe ALL that he says." And I say, and will always say, that Hell is a punishment that no one deserves, especially just because you don't believe in the correct deity/
"Genesis 1 and 2 do not at all contradict themselves. Genesis 2 is just more descriptive than Genesis 1." They are in different orders. That is a contradiction.
"t's kind of like the account of Judas' death in the NT. There were 3 different writings. They all said the same thing but with different words. All you have to do is put them together. The Bible never contradicts itself =]." I'm not very well versed with the NT, but yes, the bible does contradict itself.
That fertilization stuff isn't natural. The natural way to reproduce is for a man and woman to have sex. So do you still think homosexuality is natural?
"A lot of ppl say that people are homosexual or lesbian because they're born with some brain defect. That's what it has to do with." Ummm...... I have never heard that. Maybe other people say that or convince people that that's why they are homosexual, but it has nothing to do with it.
"Yeah, I said some. I don't think that all homosexuals are born that way. Can you prove that they all are? I can tell you that I can't prove they all are, and I can't prove they're all not. So I'm just going to guess that all of them are not, but some of them are." It's common sense. As a heterosexual person, can you imagine yourself deciding not to be attracted to the opposite sex and being attracted to the same sex?
"Sure, a lot of people are probably more comfortable with coming out, but I still know that a lot of kids just think it will make them cool." I still don't buy that. Maybe it's cool that they are willing to come out, but I don't buy that either.
"No, no, no. I believe that what they do is wrong or "evil" if that's what you want to call it. But that in no way means I think of them as evil. So yes, I do treat them exactly the same as I did before. If you would treat someone differently because you found out something new about them that's fine. But don't place me in that category." I don't claim that you treat them worse. I really just don't think that it is possible for your relationship to be exactly the same. Not better. Not worse. Just different.
"I say if anyone thinks part of their religion is "out-dated" then they don't need to believe it." So why not the part about homosexuality? Why isn't that outdated?
"And for the record, religion is man's way of reaching God, doing good works to save themselves. Christianity is God's way of reaching man." According to Christians. How do you know that you are right?
"That's why He sent Jesus, His son, to die for us. That's how we're saved. So Christianity isn't a religion. Nothing we do can get us into heaven. All we have to do is believe. And through believing we will desire to do God's will. So either way you look at it, Jesus saves us. We don't save ourselves. And "cherry-picking" is wrong no matter who does it. If you don't want to believe it all, then don't believe any of it." So, you believe every single Christian law is right? What about women being less than men?
"And like I said, all sins are equal. You can come out of any sin if you really want to. If you really love God, you'll want to do His will, no matter how hard giving up a sin is. He'll take it away. All you have to do is ask Him for help." ................... I think it is horribly wrong for anyone to expect people to supress their love for other people.
"You're taking it out of context. The Bible does not mean that woman should be treated as slaves. It just means that the man is the head of the household, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the provider and protector. Of course that doesn't mean that women shouldn't work. There is proof in the Bible of women making income as well. If you have a Bible look up Proverbs 31: 10-31. It's all right there." So, are you less than a man?
"You know, you're right. It doesn't speak of women in homosexuality. But why would God say it's wrong for men if it isn't wrong for women as well?" Why not?
"Not all Christians are Jews, you're right." No. Absolutely no Christians are Jews, because Jews don't accept Jesus as a prophet, messiah, son of god or anything.
"But there are Jews who are Christians. They're called Messianic Jews." Also known as Christians saying that they are Jews because Jews are the chosen people.
"But like I've said, Christ died for everyone so that we all may have eternal life if we believe." In other words, we have to be Christian.
"So yes, everything applies to everyone. Please give me the Scriptural passage where it says that it's a sin for women to wear pants! I've never heard that one." I will try to find it toomorow. I'm exhausted. I am no longer 100% sure about that one either,
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
>>> Reproduction in humans occurs when a man and a woman have sex. Male and >>>female parts fit together. If you ask me it's pretty obvious that that's what's natural.
I think there is now too much overpopulation in the world and it would be better if we could cut down on that. Most cases of sex between men and men are not for reproduction. There are other reasons for sex and they account for the vast majority of choices to have sex. You may feel natural about ``fitting your parts`` with an opposite sex partner, but for me, my beloved and I fit together perfectly. You seem to be reducing a relationship down to genitals, whereas for me it is more about the love I have for him.
`>>>`You'll see kids running around saying they're gay just because they think it's cool.``
Most gay kids I know are scared to tell the truth that they are gay, so I`ve seen the opposite. In fact, I`d say that you`ll see kids running around saying they are straight because they think it`s considered ``cool,`` even when it isn`t true about them.
>>>It's deffinitely not cool to be fake just because you think it will make other people like you.
I agree. I only wish people gay and straight could be themselves without fear of judgment by others.
>>> My problem is when homosexual Christians say that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual.
I gave it years of a lot of thought and prayer and consideration and it feels very clear to me that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
>>> If you're really a Christian you would admit that you're wrong when you do something the Bible says not to do...
I disagree. Jesus did not teach people to follow every word of the Bible. In fact, the Bible as we have it did not exist in his time but he challenged the religious books people were using with his own teachings.
A great many people`s different opinions and stories are told in the books that have been selected for Bibles, but to be a Christian means to follow what Jesus taught.
For example, do you get haircuts or wear cotton\polyester shirts or mow the lawn on Saturday or eat bacon or shrimp or Fig Newtons or grow two kinds of vegetables in your garden or maintain a code of silence in church or refuse to say G~ds name, etc. etc. etc...... Do you murder kids if you hear them swear and murder your neighbor if you walk by on Saturday and see her trimming her hedges, and do you idolate yourself on a mountaintop for several days if you accidentally shake hands with a menstruating woman ... If divorced, will you be willing to stay unmarried for life...
You may follow one or two of those but I can guarantee you don`t follow all of them and if you did you would be arrested for being a danger to society. Characters in the Bible are quoted saying God wants them to do this or that but that doesn`t mean their ideas should be held by Christians to the same standard as Jesus` teachings.
>>Basically, my point is that I think homosexuality is wrong BUT the people who are homosexuals are not evil nor do they deserve to have rights taken away from them. All men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right?
I`m glad we can at least agree to that. I think your way is wrong too, but I definitely support your right to be protected from hate crimes, to get married, to be treated with respect in society, to have every right of any citizen, etc. etc. A lot of religious people want to institute their own way by law, and I think that is not only wrong but dangerous.
I wish I could find it too lol.
No, I don't mean that that's all there is to relationships. It's very much the opposite. I get pissed when that's all boys want from me. A relationship is about trust, honesty, friendship, loyalty, and love. And if you have that, it's great.
Like I didn't want to sound like I was judging homosexuals. I'm not. I'm giving my oppinion which is based on my belief. I'm just restating God's words.
I think we see both everyday. I think it's very important to let your true self out. Whether you think you'll be laughed at or hated or whatever. I really don't like when people do both of those things, but I deffinitely don't like it more when people won't be straight forward about their orientation. I think if you're gay and you're going to try to hide it, you at least need to tell your partner. Just like if someone were bi-sexual and their partner thought they were just gay. I think your partner has the right to know.
Ok. It's fine that you think nothing is wrong with it, just like it's fine that I think something is. I love that in this world we can all have different oppinions..just as long as we all get along. I have no problem with you because of what you believe and I hope you have no problem with me because of my beliefs.
Lol. Come on. Obviously you've read the Bible, at least to some degree. Jesus died so we wouldn't have to kill people for doing wrong. He fulfilled the OT. That doesn't mean that we can sin all we want to and have no consequences. It just means that when we sin and ask for forgiveness (wholeheartedly) we'll be forgiven.
I don't want to say I hate them, but sometimes I really feel like I hate people who commit hate crimes on homosexuals. Well on anyone for that matter. But I'm just trying to stick to the topic. It breaks my heart. I'm doing my senior paper on homosexuality and for my ethical appeal I looked up some true stories about hate crimes on homosexuals. I cried. I couldn't take it. And it wasn't at all graphic. The thing that made me cry is that someone could have so much hate for others just because of their orientation. I could never hate someone because of that. Like I said, I have family members who are gay and I have friends who are gay as well. I guess that makes it more personal for me, but even if I didn't. It still would make me cry. It's so sad to see what the world is coming to. We can get along even with different oppinions.
"the measure of love is to love without measure"
"of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these: it might have been"
"either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing"
Honestly, this has to be the best entry I have read where the author is against homosexuality.
"Basically, my point is that I think homosexuality is wrong BUT the people who are homosexuals are not evil nor do they deserve to have rights taken away from them. All men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, right?"
I like that part, you say that you don't agree with it, but they do not deserve to be treated they way they do. Because it’s true, they don't deserve the prejudices against them.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion
Ryan Pierce
This has been said repeatedly, but I want to shake you by the cyber-hand for 1)sticking up for your religious beliefs while 2)still recognizing the legitimacy of other religions. A breath of fresh air, and a difficult feat.
--Samus
(if you're not outraged, you're not paying attention)
I like your thoughts and ideas, but have you ever stopped to question the source of your beliefs? Do you believe homosexuality is wrong because the bible says it is, or because someone told you the bible says it's wrong?
cheers
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion