My Third Blog on Missionaries (regarding conversion)
It is suggested that you read the first two...
"It's a shame that a few conservative evangelicals have had a monopoly on the word conversion."
In my last blog about missionaries, on a some of the comments, it was said that a missionary's main work is to convert people. In my blog, I said that I believe a missionary's main work is to help out in the community and inform these people that have never even heard of Jesus Christ or Christianity.
"But converstion means to change, to alter, after which something looks different than it did before -- like conversion vans or converted currency. We need converts in the best sense of the word, people who are marked by the renewing of their minds and imaginations, who no longer conform to the pattern that is destroying our world. Otherwise, we have only believers, and believers are a dime a dozen nowadays. What the world needs is people who believe so much in another world that they cannt help but begin enacting it now"
After reading this (all quotes come from The Irresistible Revolution written by Shane Claiborne), I had a whole new meaning of conversion. Not only can nonbelievers convert to believers, but Christians can convert to active Christians. Convert doesnt specifically mean "to become a Christian" or at that any other religion.
"Then we will see tears converted to laughter as people beat their swords into plowshares and weld their machine guns into saxophones, and as police officers use their billy clubs to play baseball."
"THERE IS A KIND OF CONVERSION THAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE NOT BECAUSE OF HOW WE TALK BUT HOW WE LIVE."
"CONVERSION IS NOT AN EVEN BUT A PROCESS, A PROCESS OF SLOWLY TEARING OURSELVES FROM THE CLUTCHES OF THE CULTURE."
This book is amazing. It gives me a while new insight to things.
So, missionaries are there not to convert people to Christians, but to convert their lifestyle, to convert their knowledge. Ultimately, the goal is to convert to Christians, but more importantly to change their lives and to help them with all of the love and faith and hope they have. Most of these people dont even have a sense of hope, or faith, or even love.
I know this isnt all relevant to missionaries, but this is all very important to me. It is important to understand the works of missionaries.
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trying to convert the Non-Christians into Christianity and saving us godless sinners from our poor miserable lives
thanks for writing this, it was nicely written and gave me another opinion from the one i had formed about Christian Missionaries
(of course Mother Teresa has always had a good place in my heart but other than her...)
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Twain
You see, the problem with missionaries is that, inherantly, they want to change the faith of other people, either from non-Christian to Christian or, even worse, from normal Christian to evangelical. And I think it is a dirty trick to pull to combine conversion with siding a community. They are perverting a good cause. I think it is fine to try to help the world. I don't think it is fine to try to convert people through being helpful.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
Being helpful doesn't mean I am going to convert into the religion of the person who helped me?
Is that what you are trying to say?
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Twain
What I am saying is that it is wrong to use good deeds as a way to convert. It is wrong to say to the poor person as he eats his first meal in days, I want to tell you about Jesus Christ. It's bribing people to become Christian, even if you give aid regardless of their religion.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
But the thing is it isnt a trick.
They are just telling them about Christianity, and if they like the idea, they can learn more, and if they don't then, hopefully, the missionary will leave them alone.
The work is helping the sociely through faith. and I think this concept is such a hard thing to understand without a strong faith.
It is coercion. Even if aid isn't only given to converts, it is still selling the religion to people by being the only place they can get help. Consider this, you are a very poor person. You see a building with a sign on it that says "food for the poor". You go in and are fed. While being fed, the person who gave you the food says, while you are here, I would like to tell you abou Islam or Scientology or Judaism or Hinduism or Buddism(?) or any other religion.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
Ok.
well heres something else.
Everytime you help/aid/encounter someone, a piece of you rubs off on them.
You can argue this statement, but personally its true. If someone helps me, I get a little sense of what they stand for and who they are.
If I like their ideas and mindset, I could choose to encounter this peron more often and learn some of their beliefs and ideas.
true? or not true?
I have had help from many people throughout my life. Some Christian, some not. I have known of the religions of these people who helped me. But, while helping me, they did not try to tell me about their religion.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
most do not have the same opinion and views as you
and They DON'T leave you alone
Now I understand what Jsaj is saying and I have to say that I agree
I was once constantly given christian literature and Music by some very nice people---and I still have the Cd's and the booklets they gave to me
and they kept on giving it to me everytime we met but i just took it and said thanks but I can say that I felt uncomfortable everytime because I knew they expected me to read and maybe think of Converting but I did read but stopped because I didn't feel like I want to convert
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Twain
you stopped reading because you didnt feel like you wanted to convert?
something strikes me about that statement. If you stopped reading, was it really because you didnt want convert? Or were you scared that you didnt want to question your belief? Or did you stop reading because you thought it was all bull?
that was constantly attacking other religions (especially Islam) and using the same kind of language that some Evangelical Christians such as Jerry Lewis use
there, is that more clearer?
and yes Most of it was BULL and i don't put up with stuff that uses that kind of mentality
as I have explained before- I went through questioning my belief and religion myself
I don't need poeple who don't know about what Islam is...trying to convert me and using that sort of rhetoric that calls Nonbelievers sinners and godless and poor miserable lost souls
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Twain
Oh, well i didnt know the panphlet was attacking other religions.
To me, that isnt was a missionary should do.
First of all, the way to gain someone on your religion wouldnt be to attack other religions.
It would have been different if the pamphlet was just an information guide on their religion.
and are using the words evangelical christian as a derogatory term?
but my nephew came and turned off my laptop
and by evangelicals- i did imply a negative connotation, i was pointing toward Christian extremist and fundamentalists who hold beliefs that I would never expect from any religious person
and I have to say, the real extremist fundamentals in Islam are to be hated too but people do not understand that Muslims who are blowing themselves up wnat a political gain and are asking for something very materialistic, they are just Muslims thinking that their actions will get them to heaven (they won't go to heaven, ever)
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter." - Twain
I agree, in our time today Christian's have gained a bad name due to the extremists, over the top kind of stuff.
You see on TV the churches where everyone runs around screaming. Thats riciculous....they give Christians a bad name (in my opinion.) All Christians arent like that.
"And Jesus gets commercialized, weather it's the plastic night-lights or the golden crucifixes. (And now there is a bobbing-head 'Buddy Jesus' for your car and the "Jesus is my homeboy" T-Shirt.) It becomes hard to know who Jesus really is, much less to imagine that Jesus ever laughed, cried, or had poop that smelled."
--The Irresistible Revolution
"So, missionaries are there not to convert people to Christians, but to convert their lifestyle, to convert their knowledge. Ultimately, the goal is to convert to Christians..."
Um... clarify please?
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"You're asking me to *read*?! I'm not even in class...and just to think I had to put on pants for this."
~npsm18
Best video evar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD8qubsp39M
Ok, i admit there is a lot of contradictory there.
but to clarify...The Ultimate gift for a missionary would be for one of the people they're working with to believe in Christianity.
But more so, they are there (just from my ecperiences with missionaries) to help out in the community through faith and God's love. And with this definition of conversion, missionaries are there to change their lifestle, to present to them more knowledge about Christianity. And if these people agree with the information, then they can learn more and ultimately convert to a Christian.
I hope I cleared some things up.
let me know if not.
So if they are helping people, there is always a ulterior motive? I mean why can't they just help? I know in you blog you seem to approach it with good intentions but not all people see the world the way you might see it... :-)
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"You're asking me to *read*?! I'm not even in class...and just to think I had to put on pants for this."
~npsm18
Best video evar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD8qubsp39M
There isnt always an ulterior motive to helping. Sometimes its just to help.
In the case of missionaries, again with the ones i know, helping is through faith and God's love. And while helping, they are spreading the message of God's love. and again, not specifically to convert, but to inform those who have never heard of Jesus.
I get what you mean, thanks for the clarification :-)
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"You're asking me to *read*?! I'm not even in class...and just to think I had to put on pants for this."
~npsm18
Best video evar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD8qubsp39M
There's not always an ulterior motive, but in this case, there is. I ask again, do you think it is realistic to believe that these people will not be converted for the most part. Starving, sick people make easy targets. The food and medical aid is the hook for the sale. What's being sold, Christianity.
"Every man makes a god of his own desire."
-Virgil
but I can now see what you mean
this thing (converting by this kindness)
happens especially in third world countries a LOT. or where ever there is poverty, sickness and starvation
"Pride is concerned with who is right. Humility is concerned with what is right."
http://www.progressiveu.org/231615-this-is-a-muslim-girls-plight
Well, again, in the case of the ones I know, they would let them know about it, and if they're interested in knowing more, then it can go from there.