I'm new at writing with a main topic that I'm not used to writing about, so for my first blog I will just write about what I know best. Religion has been a part of my life for as long as I can remember and my knowledge grows and grows as I get older.
I started out in church growing up, and yet I never heard the word Salvation. My chruch seemed to be focused more on congregating than anything now that I look back on it. I could be wrong because I was young. I first heard the word Salvation in a Christian horseback riding camp in the summer of 2000, I was only 11 at the time. I gave my life to Jesus that summer for the first time, but from that point further knew nothing of what it meant to be a Christian and not just a church goer.
A few years later in 2004 I moved far away from my dad and my home in Mass to move with my mom to Indiana. It was the end of my Freshman year. I started dating a guy, who in September started bringing me to his youth group. The church is a pentacostal church, which is much different from the church I grew up in. I went as often as he did, but one day I really wanted to go and couldn't. It was the youth pastor's last night at the church, so I found my own way there. Since then I have learned so much about the bible and my Christian faith. I started going every Wednesday to the youth group and as many Sundays as I could. My older brother began to join me and we took this walk together.
So, that is the background of how I got to my faith and therefore I will now discuss my personal opinions on my faith.
About premarital sex:
Many may judge me on my opinion on this topic, but I shall bring in my personal experiences into play along with my opinion on the Bible itself for those that wish to throw verses at me.
I have heard all about how the Bible says that premarital sex is a sin, but I disagree. I am not condoning those that want to save themselves, nor am I accepting those who wish to sleep with anything that walks on two legs. I am only saying that in my personal experience it can be wonderful, but it can also harm a relationship.
The Bible is a great book to live by, but there are reasons that I do not follow absolutely every single word. The Bible was written by man, not God himself. Yes, these men spoke to God, but there are words written that we have not had the full opertunity as Christians to read. The lost books of the Bible were taken out on purpose so that we follow what man wants, not SOLELY what God wants. I have to look at the Bible as a guide and follow what I belive is right from my own gut and from prayer. Our flesh will lead us into sin, but our prayers(if we choose to follow them) will lead us on a narrow path to Heaven.
So, for my personal reasons on saying that preparital sex can be wonderful, but it can also harm:
First off, I will start off when I was a child. I was sexually abused as a child and it has shaped many ideas and a lot of who I am today is due to how I handled these situations. I never spoke of it until recently, but this lead me into some horrible situations that I will not discuss further. When I was 10 I met an older guy, about 15 or 16. He just made me feel like a child again by bringing the sexual contact into the relationship. Shortly after my eleventh birthday I lost my virginity. I didn't blame anyone, but myself and so I went into a retreat into my own world. I ignored everything around me. Truth is I still had my crushes like every girl, but I didn't care what I looked like, I didn't care about my hygene, nor did I care too much what anyone thought. All I cared about were my studies.
Let's move forward a little. Like I previously mentioned I moved to Indiana my Freshman year. I was young, but I met someone. He introduced me to a lot of things. Nothing really too bad, but he brought me into the world of sex. After I started going to the youth group every week there was a series about preparital sex. The series was six weeks long about how much of sin it was and that we can't get close to God with unforgiven sins on our hands. He and I had been together for quite awhile at this point and we were both addicted. It didn't seem to cause us too many problems at this point. Then, we decided about week 2 or 3 that we were going to stop. But, as many may know stopping after so long is just so hard to do. It strained our relationship a great deal. We made it throught that, but I learned that it wasn't going to change. After about two years he left me and things went down hill since then.
I will be truely honest that I have been practically addicted to sex since I was even too young to understand it. This put me in a bad situation, especially when trying to follow my faith and having everyone on my back about it.
Now, that I have provided you with the minor details of how it can be bad, I will explain(without too much detail) how it can make things so amazing:
All the boyfriends that I have had that I have truely loved(I have been in love 3 times and am lucky to be with one of them still) I have slept with. That is not to say that everyone I have slept with I love. That is different. Sex for me is more than just an animal instinct. For me, it's about passion. For the time in which you have together, your bodies are joined and at complete extacy. These strong emotions can join two people even closer than they have ever been, but only when there is time and passion is involved. Not to say that a quicky in the morning before work is a horrible thing to do, but at the moment when most people change the name of sex to something else such as love making. I think that that name can barely describe the feelings when two people are in love.
Well, back to the religious part of this blog. Now that I have brought to light a small part of my background I should clarify the exact reasons I don't believe it is sin.
Sin is something that disgraces God. He explains many things in the Bible that are clearly sin(for example the Ten Comandments), but others are not so clear. Sex to me is one of those things that are not so clear. Sex is precious and yes sometimes I do wish that I had waited, but in some ways that disision was not mine to begin with. If I waited until marriage after I gave my life to Jesus I would have missed out on some of the most passionate moments of my life. I have gone through so much and I am glad for many of my memories, but some of them I wish I could escape. No matter how far or how fast you run, you can never escape them; they will find thier way back into your subconscience.
I know that this is quite biased, but that is my view and I hope I made it as clear to you as it was to me. Things are scattered and to collect them in one place has always been a challenge. I am looking forward to others opinions and responces.
As my mother always taught me: "Keep an open mind and be open to critisim and other peoples ideas."
I always have my heart and ears open to possibilities, ideas, opinions, and everything else. These are all welcome, so long as there is no hostility.
Next to come: My beliefs on Creation!
You said, "The Bible was written by man, not God himself." I'll have to disagree with that slightly. You were making it out to believe that it was man's own mind that was written down into the Bible. Well, men, "led by the Holy Spirit" (I dont' know the verse right now) wrote the Bible. When you are being led or filled with the Holy Spirit, you do no do what you desire, you do exactly what God wants. So, when these men were filled with the Holy Spirit, God spoke to them and told them what to write down. Just like many authors have been blind and dictated to others to write for them, it's the same concept. If you don't believe about the filling of the Holy Spirit as I described, try to think of it as being a positive version of being drunk. When one is drunk, they are controlled by the alcohol, they are not themselves anymore. The same is true of the Holy Spirit, you are controlled by the Holy Spirit, you are not. Ok, that parts done.
On your position of premarital sex, you clarified it very well I believe. It's true that sex is pleasurable, that's why God made it, but as you as you also said, you have regrets and other emotions. Pretty much here on out is biased emotions, so don't condone me for it. I believe that if you are haunted by this and feel a sense of regret, then whatever is causing those emotions is a sin. I know I had a problem with pornography for a time and it just tore me up, I felt so much guilt inside, I couldn't stand it. Glory to God, he forgived me and washed my sins away, but the main point here is: Sin must be punished. So, if premarital sex is a sin, then it has its own form of punishment. I believe the punishment varies, but in general probably consists of regret, addiction, and the main reason I dont' participate in it: I've heard stories of people that did not save themselves for marriage but their partner did. That would be the worst feeling I think. Knowing that your partner had endured so much temptation and possibly ridicule for you and you could not do the same for him/her. In conclusion then, yes, sex is pleasurable, but consider this "Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;" - Hebrews 11:25. Sin's pleasures only endure for a season, as you said, you became addicted and couldn't stop, that's because sin does not satisfy. I hope you'll consider some of my points.
Condone means accept, pardon. I think you mean something more like criticize.
~C
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Oops, yeah, used the wrong word there. That was my bad.
". When one is drunk, they are controlled by the alcohol, they are not themselves anymore."
Nonsense. They are merely at the mercy of aspects of their true repressed animal selves as they are uninhibited by the alcohol. This whole business about people being controlled by alcohol is such a cop out. All it does is pull away the repressive restraints the unintoxicated mind places upon our behaviour. This Christian obsession with possession just plows over the intricacies of the human psyche and attempts to dumb down psychology to superstitious quackery.
"The same is true of the Holy Spirit, you are controlled by the Holy Spirit"
If people claim that they are controlled by any other possessional force in their actions apart from those recognized by the major religions, they are deemed to be mentally ill. All this 'filled with the holy spirit' nonsense is just sanity in numbers, which is to say not actually sane at all.
"but the main point here is: Sin must be punished."
Did you ever stop to think that your concept of what is sinful might be merely the result of social taboos which were placed upon you through the manipulation of your mind by a religious organisation which has had unfettered access to you since you were an infant? Did you ever stop and think that maybe what you feel is sinful actually isn't, and that maybe it's your belief system that is causing you so much emotional discontent, not the actual act.
Most non-religious friends of mine, and myself included, enjoy all manner of things that the church deems sinful. We feel no remorse, we feel no guilt, in fact we feel empowered by the fact that others less fortunate than ourselves live under the yoke of rule books written thousands of years ago, in a time of great scientific ignorance, while we are free to enjoy our humanity. If we were to teleport the men who wrote the Bible to our day and age, and quiz them on the most elementary of scientific concerns, like say, the Earth not being flat, they would stun us with their ignorance and backwardness.
Yet, there are many millions of people all over the world who believe the ravings of such men hold more merit in guiding us towards a more civilized society than men who have an extra couple of thousand years worth of scientific and philosophical advancement from which to draw their conclusions.
Belief in the infallibility of the Bible is like spitting in the face of some of the greatest minds to grace this Earth since that book was written in favour of the ancient scribblings of some mad clerics who didn't even know that the Earth revolves around the sun. If they were in direct communion with God, you'd think he might have filled them in on that :p
"Knowing that your partner had endured so much temptation and possibly ridicule for you and you could not do the same for him/her."
Manipulative, fallacious and guilt-ridden emotional blackmail. What kind of scumbag is impregnating the minds of the youth with such poisonously aggressive persuasive technique? Christian churches are like guilt ninjas; black belts in manufacturing shame and exploiting minds with the self-loathing they generate. The basic law of persuasive advertising in a consumer society is this: you create a need, then you fill it. It is based off the back of what churches do; they create shame, then they offer a remedy. Scumbags.
"that's because sin does not satisfy."
That's only because the church has gone out of it's way to make you dissatisfied and has managed to permeate much of the dominant culture in which you live. The same way modern advertising makes people dissatisfied with perfectly functioning products so that they will buy new ones. Churches are like advertisers, except they call it proselytizing, they aim to manufacture desire for their product through the generation of shame, guilt and dissatisfaction, while exploiting insecurities like fear of death, isolation and alienation.
There are plenty of people raised under Islam in their dominant culture who feel shame that few Christians would endorse; for instance I don't know any Christian women who feel sinful and shameful for displaying their uncovered face in public.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
Drugs, including alcohol, get rid of inhibitions. One could say that drugs bring out one's true self. Almost all ancient religions used some form of drugs in ceremony. They often considered it a religious experience. I would love to know what the authors of the bible were on when they wrote their books.
The Holy Spirit, drug-induced hallucinations, or mental disorder? Or just sheer manipulation? I suggest everyone see the documentary Jesus Camp. It's the scariest movie I've ever seen...
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
"I would love to know what the authors of the bible were on when they wrote their books."
Most likely they were aware ofFly Agaric mushrooms; the red and white ones depicted in fairytales. Whether they themselves took them, who knows, but they definitely represented an element in the inspiration of parts of the Bible. They contain a powerful hallucinogen called muscimol. They are known as 'flesh of the Gods' and were used as sacrament in a host of cultures.
They are believed to be the true fruit of the 'tree of knowledge'. They grow spherically at the base of trees, in their early stages looking like a red apple; like a red apple, when bitten into, they expose a white flesh. The symbolism is significant.
Such significance is compounded by the Stained glass in Canterbury Cathedral in England, where both Fly Agarics and Liberty Caps (psilocybin bearing mushrooms) are depicted under an image of Jesus, but more importantly in the spherical canopy of the tree of knowledge, with Adam and Eve standing either side.
So, with the church, there most likely exists an awareness of the roots of a certain esoteric knowledge which can be accessed via these mushrooms. I would speculate that the Adam and Eve represents an ignorance-is-bliss factor, the church and it's structure representing the garden itself, with the tree of knowledge symbolizing freedom of mind through knowledge, or true enlightenment.
I think it is a coded authoritarian warning that those who wish to think freely should and will be cast from the Church's garden. It is the condemnation of knowledge as a desirable asset for the common man. This can be correlated with the vicious executions meted out by the church to the first people who dared to translate the Bible into English or any tongue which made it accessible to the 'common man'.
The garden of Eden is a tale warning people that master church knows. It allies knowledge with Satan and fetes ignorance as bliss; subordination becomes strength, freedom becomes exile. And it all comes back to natural psychedelics and their significance to spirituality and enlightenment.
"The Holy Spirit, drug-induced hallucinations, or mental disorder? Or just sheer manipulation?"
There is a hypothesis floating around about a thing called 'the God centre' in the brain. This is the work of neurologists who discovered that, in believers there is a part of the brain which is more active than in non-believers. They also discovered that this same area of the brain was particularly active in people with temporal lobe epilepsy. When people prayed properly, as in monks, as opposed to the please-God-let-there-be-a-snow-day-tomorrow contingent, this part of the brain became heavily active. It didn't matter about the religion, the act of mediative prayer yielded the same effects.
Neurologists then discovered that they could artificially stimulate this area of the brain with electrodes. When they tested what effect this electro-stimulation had on the human mind, they discovered that what people felt was the overwhelming sense of there being a presence in the room.
In another incidence which intrigued researchers, a young girl who was terrified by the presence of a strange being in her bedroom, was discovered to have been artificially stimulated by an electrical fault in her beside alarm clock. She was 100% certain there was somebody or something in her room with her, upon the removal of the clock, the presence vanished with it.
The sheer manipulation through religion is what gives this function of the human brain arms and legs; arms and legs which beat and kick people into fear based submission to authority. People are manipulated into exercises that stimulate this part of the brain, this in-turn apparently validates the supernatural claims of the religion by allowing the dupe to feel the genuine sensation of a presence. The religion then convinces those people that that sensation of a presence is divine.
This parlor trick is what convinces otherwise intelligent people to follow orders from churches; churches 'show them the light'; in other words they manipulate their minds into a state which makes fertile ground for the propagation of imaginary friends. I'd speculate that the imaginary friend phenomena associated with children and crazy people is no different to the feeling of God's supposed presence; convincing to the person who holds such a delusion, but insane those who don't.
But we don't tend to take orders from the imaginary friends of children or crazy people. With children we politely ignore the imaginary friend or occasionally humour it for sport. With crazy people, we attempt to counsel them and educate them out of their delusional state. Why do the religious get such respect? Sanity in numbers, not to mention they're the quickest to pick up a gun in their delusion's name.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
We talked about these delusions in one of my psych classes. It's interesting, but the way I understand it, anyone who meditates can hit this part of the brain. Meditation is not necessarily a religious exercise. So, basically, "the Holy Spirit" could be either a combination of that and manipulated (brainwashed?) people or just drug-induced hallucinations.
Then there's another theory... The Bible was written as just another myth, a way to instill fear, give rules, give excuses, and keep power.
About the "prayer trance," I caught Law & Order last night. The episode was about a kid who stoned his mom to death because she cheated on his dad with a Muslim. The kid had been at a Christian camp. They did the whole "prayer trance" excuse to say he didn't realize what he was doing. Interesting episode.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
Ok, yes, I'll agree that alcohol does bring out one's true self when consumed in excess. In my mind though, acting with "animal-like" behavior, as I believe you referenced, is a side of people that not many people will see. Your true self is who you are on the inside and what you truly believe, regardless of what you say to people and how you pretend to act. Even people with the greatest character and piety however would act animal-like if they consume great amounts of alcohol. I don't believe that this is their "true self" that has been brought out, but more of a twisted version of themselves that the alcohol has given them. I'm not around many drunkards or alcoholics at all really, but I can take a guess that they're two completely different people when they are sober and when they are drunk.
You had also mentioned that all that I believe is what I've been taught all my life. That is partially true, I do believe a great deal of what my church and school have taught me as I have grown up. However, I have differing views from many people in my church and school. They are not horrible differences that are contradictory to the Bible or anything, such as I do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. That's somewhat beside the point, but my purpose was to show you that I'm not just a product of my environment. I have thought over what I believe and found them to be true; I'm not just some computer that will only produce what's been put into it. Is that really so different from you, really? You've been taught certain things growing up by your parents I'm sure. Some of those things you agree with, others you do not. You use logic, reasoning, and hints of bias/emotions here and there to become the person you are today. We are not products of our environment, we are who we make ourselves to be.
"I have thought over what I believe and found them to be true"
Yes, but have you read over the thoughts of others who do not believe? I have read the Bible, have your read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins? What you believe is subjective, thinking over your own beliefs without dedicating the same amount of thought to those of believe the opposite is redundant, you are most likely only offering one school of thought a cursory glance, while the other your near-undivided attention.
I've been completely convinced countless times, about countless things, only to hear what others had to say and find myself completely contradicted. Without genuinely exploring their contradiction I would never have realised I was wrong, and thus I would still be walking around today convinced of countless fallacies.
"I'm not just some computer that will only produce what's been put into it."
Actually that what we all are. The human brain is a sponge, it soaks up what is available to our senses, everything we think and how we think about it is the product of what's put in. When you think do you not think in English? Have you ever tried to imagine something which doesn't exist without drawing upon existing things to formulate an amalgamation of things that already exist in your mind as a result of the melting pot of input your brain/mind is. Your brain needs as much information and experience as it can gather from all sides of a belief/non-belief before it can form an educated and reliable opinion. We are like computers, crap in, crap out; just think of people you know who watch junk tv all day, who don't read and pay no attention to the news.
"Is that really so different from you, really?"
Yes, because I am aware of the fact that my brain is essentially like an organic computer that will only be able to produce a product by way of thought predetermined by what is put into it.
Advertisers understand this, it's why, like religions, they are obsessed with advertising to children; early brand recognition, saturating the child environment with it, so that the bulk of what goes ito the child's brain is dominated by their sales pitch. Like the Jesuits say "Give me the boy, I'll give you the man". If you surrender to the notion that authority is benevolent as a constant, as is the conditioning churches impose upon children, then you fail to think with your full critical capabilities.
"We are not products of our environment, we are who we make ourselves to be."
So you believe that racist 12 year olds whose parents are neo-nazis and have raised them to believe what they believe are entirely culpable for their views and actions? If their environment and stimuli are controlled effectively that child will become a racist adult, by which time it will be incredibly difficult to reverse the decades of conditioning that made him the man.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I have a couple questions for you. I can't properly respond to this post due to the fact that not enough time has passed for me to have read the suggested book, nor has enough time passed for me to research every world view. However, I would like to just ask you a couple questions so I can know more of what you believe.
I've seen that you tend to focus heavily on the brain and it's many functions and attributes. I agree, the brain is a very complex organism and dictates much of what we do. My question then is this: Do you believe in the human soul? When I view the brain, I see much more than just organic tissue and fluid. What is it that gives the brain its ability to function? We can analze a brain and know all of its contents, but we can't recreate a human brain. We dont' have a special "spark" or anything that can breathe life into that lump of organic matter to bring about a mind. This leads me to believe that there is more than just the physical mind that is there. I'm sure you have a differing view, but I'd just like to know if you believe in a soul.
My second question isn't really related to the post, but I just wanted to know how old you are. You have an extensive vocabulary and seem to have done a large amount of research on what you post. This isn't very typical of any individuals my age, so I just want to know the age or age range that I'm speaking with.
"Do you believe in the human soul?"
I don't know enough about neurology or spirituality to decide conclusively, but I would lean toward disbelief. I'm not a fan of belief, we all have to exercise enough of it already in our day to day life, without forcing ourselves to believe stuff which clearly presents little evidence to warrant our suspension of disbelief.
When I do entertain the idea of a human soul, it is nothing like the one imagined by Christians; before anybody takes the whole 'what-do-you-know-about-Christians' angle, I attended 12 years at a Christian school, I was christened Catholic, both my parents are of different Christian faiths, I've attended 3 different Christian churches. My concept of soul would be alien to most Christians. I have trouble even attaching a word like soul to it.
"What is it that gives the brain its ability to function?"
I'm not qualified to answer this. But since we know so very little about the human brain, yet from the tiny bit we do know, we can comfortably assert that it is capable of incredible psychological feats, i think that it just supports the position of the skeptic in regard to the delusional aspects of religious beliefs. Just look at what mentalists like David Blane and Derren Browne are able to achieve by tricking the brain; these guys, had they chosen to start a cult instead of going into showbiz, could be leading large groups of awestruck believers as we speak.
In fact it is stage magicians and mentalists like Derren Browne and James Randi who are most vocal about the trickery and mental deception practiced by all manner of spiritual charlatan. They are vocal, because they know how all the tricks work and can see them being employed clear as day, while the crowd believes on, slack jawed in awe.
Believers don't care about truth. James Randi publicly exposed Yuri Gellar as a fraud in the 1980s, yet he was ignored by the majority; Gellar's believers chose to suspend their disbelief instead of accepting the truth. Similarly, he exposed the evangelical fraud, Peter Popoff, who made millions through Christian faith healing fraud. Yet, after suffering a significant temporary financial setback, Peter Popoff is now back in business, because believs ignore the evidence and the truth it represents, because they want comfort. Unfortunately unscrupulous organisation exploit this desire for comfort and offer an disingenuous remedy with a whole load of strings attached.
"This leads me to believe that there is more than just the physical mind that is there."
I would be lead to believe that it's possible, however long the odds, but I'm not really interested in what I believe, it is just an intermediary stage on the way to knowing. Most people don't like waiting or trying to find out, they get impatient and start asserting their wild eyed beliefs as fact before they could have any clue if that is indeed the case.
The most vocal Atheist will concede that they don't know for certain whether there is a God or not, they merely assert that the odds of that being the case, in light of reasonable evidence, are so long that they don't merit vocal consideration. Any Atheist will tell you that if conclusive evidence starts to be produced which shortens the odds, their position will shift accordingly. With Agnostics, that's a given anyway; an Atheist is like 99% disbelief, so they are like extreme Agnostics, that's a generalization, but not too clumsy I'd imagine for the majority of Atheists.
"My second question isn't really related to the post, but I just wanted to know how old you are."
I'm 28.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
There are a few things in this life that no amount of knowledge and study will be able to bring about an answer. There are are ideas and concepts that the mind is just incapable of understanding, our minds aren't perfect. For the answers you gave to a few of the questions I presented, you clearly stated that you did not have enough knowledge on the subject to give a factual answer. I know that I do not have this knowledge either, more than likely less than what you know.
I believe you were correct by stating that the listed stage magicians could easily start their own cult and have many follow them. In essence, that's similar to what Benny Hinn (sp?) has been doing with his "church." People have done this in the past as well. A man would start a cult, many people would follow, but that cult would begin to vanish soon after the originator died. They probably didn't ever believe what the man was saying more than they believe the man himself. So yes, they could start cults, but they might not last for thousands of years.
With the information that we can obtain from science, we can't effectively know how the earth originated. In order for science to truthfully used, we must study the events that are observable. We cannot observe the origin of the earth, because... well, we weren't there. There are many different arguments to how it began ranging from the view of Creation to the view of Evolution or Spontaneous Generation. With any of these, however, it requires faith that the way you view the evidence given to you is correct. We clearly see that if we put a Christian and an Atheist in a room and show them a certain object (I can't think of anything specific right now for an example), they will give a different story as to its origin, use, and probably other aspects as well. Any view, therefore, requires belief. This is why Atheism is the belief that there is no God and Christianity is the belief that there is a God. We don't have the knowledge or research to prove or disprove either from the viewpoint of origins, so we rely on the here and now.
"This is why Atheism is the belief that there is no God and Christianity is the belief that there is a God."
Christianity is far more than just believing there is a God; it is believing that there is a specific God, one who has a distinct set of lists of likes and dislikes, and who is in direct communion with human beings, who he tells what laws he wants enforced on Earth; through a book, no less.
So, while there is a distinct lack of conclusive evidence on either side of the Theist/Atheist divide, it is far more reasonable to assert, in regard to Christianity, that the odds of God, if he exists, being anything like the fella described in the Bible, are very long indeed. So long that Atheists don't even take the Christian account of God seriously. There may be a higher power, but who in their right mind, after reading the Old testament, would believe that said higher power could possibly be anything like what is found in those pages?
Just because there isn't conclusive evidence on either side, that doesn't make Christianity and Atheism equal in argument. On one side of the argument there is Atheism which is based on reason, with it's central belief resulting from the application of reason to available evidence. On the other side you have Christianity, which eschews reason in favour of pure belief. One is a stance born of enlightenment, the other is born of a willful suspension of disbelief masquerading as enlightenment, and is in fact guilty of hi-jacking the term and misappropriating it wildly.
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I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I know that Christianity is much more than just the belief that there is a God. There are many religions with that belief, I was just stating that the main difference between Atheism and Christianity (mostly just meaning Theism in this case) is the belief/disbelief in a higher power.
In essence, the main reason people believe what they believe is based on their take on the Bible (of course there's many more reasons). For many atheists, they just overlook the Bible as just a mere book that is hopelessly outdated and holds no truth now and more than likely held no truth when it was first written. Christians on the other hands (and Jews if you're just speaking of the Old Testament) believe that the Bible is true in all of what it says. There are many proofs of certain stories in the Bible. Researchers have found chariots in the bottom of the Red Sea dating back to when the Israelites were led out of Egypt according to the Biblical account. A vessel has been found with the same Biblical proportions of Noah's Ark lying where the Bible said it ended its journey. Sure, not all of these stories in the Bible have been archeologically supported, but neither has the "missing link" of evolution.
I also wrote: "Yes, these men spoke to God, but there are words written that we have not had the full opertunity as Christians to read."
I do believe in the filling of the Holy Sprit. I do have to say that I believe I did mention that I don't believe that is a conspiracy of man or anything, I do know and believe that is God's Word written by man, but still things have been taken out of the Bible by man and we have not had the chance to read these excerpts. Also, there are many parts of the Bible that contradict itself.
Don't feel too bad about using condone the wrong way, I believe I did as well in my blog.
YES! Finally, a Christian who uses logic and sensibility to sort it all out! You rock.
Sex can be about love, or it can be about feeling good. It just depends on the wants and needs of both parties involved. It all works out until the wants/needs of both parties are different.
cheers
F*** Religion. Read more here:
http://www.progressiveu.org/020528-f-religion
Agreed, even if premarital sex is not condemned (there's the word I was looking for earlier) in the Bible or any other religious book, it makes sense to wait for marriage. Emotionally, when you get very close to a person intimately, then suddenly are separated from them, you become depressed sometimes. If you wait for marriage, you know that both sides have the same desire to stay together forever. Actually, that's not completely true nowadays, marriage isn't anywhere near permanent in any sense of the word. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe it's well over 50% of marriages fail. I find that to be sad, but that's just my personal opinion of marriage.
You said it makes sense to wait until marriage but also marriage is only temporary to most anyway, so what's the point of waiting until marriage? Sexual computability, like it or not, is a part of a good relationship, let alone a marriage. If you wait to have sex until it's too late, well, most likely someone's going to cheat or divorce.
The most recent statistics I read was 52% get divorced. I think a lot of that is because people get married for the wrong reasons- infatuation, drunken night in Vegas, pregnancy, whatever.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
Well, marriage hasn't always been as temporary as it is today. It used to be looked down on when one would divorce his partner for reasons other than adultery or something similar. I know that sex is a part of a good relationship, I just believe it shouldn't play any effect until the relationship gets to the point of marriage, that's all. So 52% divorce rate, that's pretty high in my opinion. I've also heard that number is roughly the same for Christians, I have no idea why this is, but it seems to be happening. Oh, you said "If you wait to have sex until it's too late, well, most likely someone's going to cheat or divorce." Well, I think that if your partner cheats on you purely because you wouldn't have sex with them then they really didn't love you to begin with, they just wanted the sex. Then again, different circumstances could dictate other reasons.
Society dictates what's stigmatized and not. Divorce isn't as stigmatized as it once was, but it still is, especially in certain cultures and religious sects.
"If you wait to have sex until it's too late, well, most likely someone's going to cheat or divorce." I was talking about waiting until you were already married to find out if there is good sexual compatibility and passion.
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood your point there. I dont' really have a counterpoint due to the fact that I am a virgin for one, and single for two. I'm not familiar at all with marriage, divorce or anything in those realms so I can't really give too much of an opinion without just babbling about something I know nothing about.
I agree because I don't believe in organized religion. I do go to church and try my hardest to follow the laws of God, but we all know that we get a little lost on the way. I always find my way back into His arms no matter where life takes me.
Also, I believe that if marriages were based on how well two people can live together and how well they work together as a unit more than infaruation or even love then things can truely work out. I personally have found that relationship. I am currently engaged and plan on moving in with my fiance this summer. I know that we will be able to live together because he lived at my parents house 2 and a half years before we started dating the first time. He didn't care to date anyone at the time, yet somehow we ended up together. We broke up when I moved to Louisville for school, but he asked me back out about a month or so ago and I know we can make it work this time because he's actually trying and I feel like his girlfriend not his good friend posing to be his girlfriend. Things can truely work out in almost any relationship if BOTH people are willing.
Take for example my mom and stepdad. They have been married for 7 years now and I have seen them go through so many harsh fights and so many hard times and yet they have pulled through and made it all work. They are what I set my future marriage to be like... minus so many fights.
From my own experience, and that of most of the couples I know, being good, close friends with your partner will make the relationship work to the advantage of both of you. Good luck!
-Sonja :)
"Democracy works only when you vote. When you don't take the time to vote for the candidate you find the least offensive, you run the risk of electing the candidate you find the most offensive."
I can't really compare my situations as far as that "s" word goes, because I've never experienced it. I have however been assaulted, and I know that people that who have been assaulted react to it in different ways. I have a very dear friend who is addicted to the "s" word, where as I am terrified of it. I'm going to be moving out of my legal guardians' home sometime in this next year, moving into an apartment of my own, and going to college, with something many girls my age don't still have... (My biological mother worries about me, even going so far as to tell me I needed to experiment... gross! eh )
Never let the world get you further down, it already has the weight of gravity on your shoulders.
" "s" word "
I didn't actually realise that was a recent photo of you that you've got there on your profile.
"My biological mother worries about me, even going so far as to tell me I needed to experiment... gross!"
You should at least wait until you're grown up enough to use the word SEX in a comment online. If I was your mother the last thing I'd want you doing is experimenting with anything that could involve potential for all-holes-filled hardcore anal penetration. Sorry, I meant "a-h-f" word with some hardcore "a" word, "p" word.
hohoho.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that your picture, Tuffgong, is also quite recent. I can agree with her on point, if my mother approached me and suggested that I experiment with sex, that'd be a little awkward for me. Then again, it may not be awkward at all to you, I really have no idea.
"Then again, it may not be awkward at all to you, I really have no idea."
My mother is Methodist, believe me, it would be far more awkward for her.
_____________________________________________________________
I am the people my mother warned me about.
http://www.progressiveu.org/blog/tuffgong
TUFFGONG
Senior Executive Administrator™
I don't know about "more" awkward- my family is predominantly Baptist in belief and attend a Baptist church. Then again, I'm not extremely familiar on Methodist belief, but I'm sure in either case, it'd be extremely awkward for either of our parents to discuss experimentation with us.
I understand where you are coming from theoneandonly. As I mentioned I was abused as a child. Growing up I couldn't stand talking about sex or even hearing a song on the radio that mentioned being naked. My mom never questioned me when I freaked out every single time that song came on("Torn" by Natalie Embrosia<--ok, I can't spell her name, but you get the point.). Guys always wanted to be my friend, but none would even consider dating me for a very long time. I have matured and gotten over most of my fears, but when it comes to sex I still can't discuss it unless it's on paper. I can spell it out, but to talk about it is still difficult.
Things will get easier theoneandonly, but I am so glad that you have made the decition to wait. I pray that someday you find a man willing to honor and respect you. Not many are still virgins at your age and now and again I still wish I were. Congradulations on keeping your body to yourself and goodluck at school.